Thread counts for a tartan

[Toraba]

Surprisingly, Ogilvie is a very standard thread count overall, only 222 it seems, just lots of changes back and forth in the weave in small groups of 4 and 6. Still interested to hear what the biggest sett out there actually is in overall measurement and number of threads required to achieve the sett.

[Barb T]

Just a reminder that the sett measurement will depend on the weight of the wool used to weave the fabric and how tightly the fabric is woven. For example, 200 very fine threads could have a width of only a couple of inches, whereas 200 very fat threads could have a width of a couple of feet.

[Steve Ashton]

Toraba,

Actually sir, you have just heard from some of the most respected experts in the Tartan world.

If you have any questions simply post the thread count here.

[Toraba]

I'm honoured.

[Steve Ashton]

If the Tartan you have designed actually has 940 yarns or ends in one full repeat of the Sett, your Sett size would be almost 24.5 inches when woven in 16oz wool. That is wider than the average apron of a kilt.
If your hips are less than 50 inches no where on the kilt would you see a full repeat of the entire Sett.

Could that be woven? Well sure almost anything could be done. You would have only two Setts in the width of the standard double-width cloth but it could be done.

[IGA]

I find this topic interesting. I don't have much to add, but for clarity's sake I think it might be helpful to describe a tartan like Black Watch as an "ABAC" pattern rather as asymmetrical. If you put a "B" or "C" (blue) section in the middle of your front apron, it is in fact symmetrical, though if you were to put an "A" (green) section in the middle, the result would not be symmetrical.

(Though I do see upon perusal of the Scottish Tartan Authority's website that there are some less common variations of Black Watch that are Assymetrical...)

[figheadair]

I find this topic interesting. I don't have much to add, but for clarity's sake I think it might be helpful to describe a tartan like Black Watch as an "ABAC" pattern rather as asymmetrical. If you put a "B" or "C" (blue) section in the middle of your front apron, it is in fact symmetrical, though if you were to put an "A" (green) section in the middle, the result would not be symmetrical.

I beg to differ. In the case of the Black Watch tartan, or indeed any tartan, the positioning of a particular part of the pattern in the centre of a kilt apron has no bearing of whether the sett is symmetrical or not.

Describing a sett in terms of blocks lead to all sorts of errors in the past and it is really far easier to use the threadcount which is how weavers have recorded setts through the generations. In his seminal work The Setts of the Scottish Tartans D. C. Stewart refined that method by starting with the colour/shade at the lower end of the alphabet, a process which if followed allows for uniformity of recording. The caveat to this method is that colours sometimes have to be prefixed by Light, Dark and Mid where more than one shade is included in a sett. The only exception Stewart included was Azure because it frequently appeared in old setts as a highlight colour. Personally I prefer Wilsons' term Light Blue (LB).

[Barb T]

If the Tartan you have designed actually has 940 yarns or ends in one full repeat of the Sett, your Sett size would be almost 24.5 inches when woven in 16oz wool. That is wider than the average apron of a kilt.
If your hips are less than 50 inches no where on the kilt would you see a full repeat of the entire Sett.

Could that be woven? Well sure almost anything could be done. You would have only two Setts in the width of the standard double-width cloth but it could be done.

This is a case where bigger is not better, at least from a kiltmaker's perspective!

[Barb T]

Describing a sett in terms of blocks lead to all sorts of errors in the past and it is really far easier to use the threadcount which is how weavers have recorded setts through the generations. In his seminal work The Setts of the Scottish Tartans D. C. Stewart refined that method by starting with the colour/shade at the lower end of the alphabet, a process which if followed allows for uniformity of recording. The caveat to this method is that colours sometimes have to be prefixed by Light, Dark and Mid where more than one shade is included in a sett. The only exception Stewart included was Azure because it frequently appeared in old setts as a highlight colour. Personally I prefer Wilsons' term Light Blue (LB).

Although this is true, people who don't weave have a hard time visualizing what a thread counts mean in terms of tartan symmetry and how a tartan looks. While the ABAC "block" system can lead to weaving errors, it is actually a pretty good general strategy for helping people to visualize how a tartan is structured, where the pivots are, and what the symmetry is.