To plaid or not to plaid.....thats the question??

[orionpyoung]

These subjects are at best, if you like, wearing Sunday best and are more likely to have been dressed from the local Laird's wardrobe.
Just saying.

Certainly, anyone who has spent some time on this forum has heard (over and again) that the MacLeay paintings are not accurate daily wear, but considering the thread is a discussion of weaing the fly plaid, "Sunday best" seems appropriate.

Indeed Nathan times do change, but this does not happen on its own. If several folks make an alteration to the way they dress, slowly a new norm is created. While the mainsteram will allow fashion to stagnate on account of tradition, those who swim against the stream (Folks not in Scotland wearing kilts) create their own sense of style wich allows evolution to continue.

Sometimes I feel somewhat closterphobic in this forum. I find it ironic that on one hand folks regard the gentlemen in the MacLeay (and other) paintings to be well turned out and displaying a lack of uniformity that has become the standard of our day. People comment on the variety of jackets, waistcoats, belts, hose, shoes and sporrans. On the other hand they appear nervous to fit with the standards of our time, seeking acceptence and attempting to conform to the uniform of the day. Aside from those in Scotland, wearing the kilt within strict social rules for very specific events, we could certainly do no harm in being more open minded about our approach how we put together our kilted "kit". This could just be the ramblings of an odd duck, but then again aren't all of us (Once again besides the Scotland folk) odd ducks wearing kilts about amongst the sea of trousers?

[Nathan]

Certainly, anyone who has spent some time on this forum has heard (over and again) that the MacLeay paintings are not accurate daily wear, but considering the thread is a discussion of weaing the fly plaid, "Sunday best" seems appropriate.

Indeed Nathan times do change, but this does not happen on its own. If several folks make an alteration to the way they dress, slowly a new norm is created. While the mainsteram will allow fashion to stagnate on account of tradition, those who swim against the stream (Folks not in Scotland wearing kilts) create their own sense of style wich allows evolution to continue.

Sometimes I feel somewhat closterphobic in this forum. I find it ironic that on one hand folks regard the gentlemen in the MacLeay (and other) paintings to be well turned out and displaying a lack of uniformity that has become the standard of our day. People comment on the variety of jackets, waistcoats, belts, hose, shoes and sporrans. On the other hand they appear nervous to fit with the standards of our time, seeking acceptence and attempting to conform to the uniform of the day. Aside from those in Scotland, wearing the kilt within strict social rules for very specific events, we could certainly do no harm in being more open minded about our approach how we put together our kilted "kit". This could just be the ramblings of an odd duck, but then again aren't all of us (Once again besides the Scotland folk) odd ducks wearing kilts about amongst the sea of trousers?

I've seen a lot of back and forth about how representative the MacLeay portraits are of the actual Highland fashion of the period between OCRichard and Jock Scot. I wasn't there, but I think OCRichard has dug up enough archival photography from the period to demonstrate his side of the argument and, given the lack of evidence to the contrary, that's where I lean. My point is that we don't live then, we live now so it's a moot point. What do the tradition bearers of our day consider appropriate? While finding a 100+ year old example of one's attire choice shows a precedent, it doesn't demonstrate that it is traditional.

Regarding your point about being outside of Scotland so anything goes, I can't say I agree. I can't speak for my US friends but there has always been a tradition of kilt wearing in Canada. Kilt wearing is certainly not as widespread as it is in Scotland, but it is mostly carried out here by Canadians of Scottish ancestry or indeed by Scottish ex-pats and both of these groups feel a close connection to their Scottish roots. Canada's military has several kilted regiments. Moreover, we are a Commonwealth nation that shares a monarch with the United Kingdom and so our connections to British traditions are close and are easily demonstrated through our institutions. There are Highland Dance academies and pipe bands in most corners of the country and by and large, Canadian Scots view themselves as part of the broader Scottish landscape.

Since official and unofficial multiculturalism has become a fact of Canadian life, many Scottish-Canadians feel less self-conscious about asserting their culture openly through traditional garb. This is especially so at weddings and formal functions.

Many Scottish-Canadian celebrities have been photographed kilted including Mike Myers and Kiefer Sutherland.

With that in mind, most people here generally do their best to get it right out of respect for their culture. Like their Scottish cousins, they are influenced by the kilt hire industry.

Does that mean we all stick strictly to TCHD? Not really. For example, when Ashley MacIsaac blended his kilt fashion with the grunge look, this was done as a statement of his particular generation in the Celtic culture and not necessary of the fact that he was outside of Scotland. His music was blending traditional and modern elements and so he depicted this visually. This was an artistic statement similar to ones that have been made in Scotland by Runrig and others.

As I read it, your argument amounts to, "Why should we be concerned about the Scots when wearing Scottish national dress outside of Scotland?" To my Gaelic-Canadian sensibilities, this boggles the mind.

I'm wearing the kilt to demonstrate my Highland heritage to all and sundry so disregarding how it's viewed in the land of it's origin seems bizarre to me. I grew up in Cape Breton, a very Celtic part of New Scotland with a majority of people being descended from Highland Scots and where Scots Gaelic is still spoken daily in some corners. When kilted, I am an ambassador of this culture and so I feel a responsibility to accurately reflect that. But hey, maybe that's just me...

[orionpyoung]

Open minded Nathan, not an all out disregard for tradition and common sense.

[creagdhubh]

I've seen a lot of back and forth about how representative the MacLeay portraits are of the actual Highland fashion of the period between OCRichard and Jock Scot. I wasn't there, but I think OCRichard has dug up enough archival photography from the period to demonstrate his side of the argument and, given the lack of evidence to the contrary, that's where I lean. My point is that we don't live then, we live now so it's a moot point. What do the tradition bearers of our day consider appropriate? While finding a 100+ year old example of one's attire choice shows a precedent, it doesn't demonstrate that it is traditional.

Regarding your point about being outside of Scotland so anything goes, I can't say I agree. I can't speak for my US friends but there has always been a tradition of kilt wearing in Canada. Kilt wearing is certainly not as widespread as it is in Scotland, but it is mostly carried out here by Canadians of Scottish ancestry or indeed by Scottish ex-pats and both of these groups feel a close connection to their Scottish roots. Canada's military has several kilted regiments. Moreover, we are a Commonwealth nation that shares a monarch with the United Kingdom and so our connections to British traditions are close and are easily demonstrated through our institutions. There are Highland Dance academies and pipe bands in most corners of the country and by and large, Canadian Scots view themselves as part of the broader Scottish landscape.

Since official and unofficial multiculturalism has become a fact of Canadian life, many Scottish-Canadians feel less self-conscious about asserting their culture openly through traditional garb. This is especially so at weddings and formal functions.

Many Scottish-Canadian celebrities have been photographed kilted including Mike Myers and Kiefer Sutherland.

With that in mind, most people here generally do their best to get it right out of respect for their culture. Like their Scottish cousins, they are influenced by the kilt hire industry.

Does that mean we all stick strictly to TCHD? Not really. For example, when Ashley MacIsaac blended his kilt fashion with the grunge look, this was done as a statement of his particular generation in the Celtic culture and not necessary of the fact that he was outside of Scotland. His music was blending traditional and modern elements and so he depicted this visually. This was an artistic statement similar to ones that have been made in Scotland by Runrig and others.

As I read it, your argument amounts to, "Why should we be concerned about the Scots when wearing Scottish national dress outside of Scotland?" To my Gaelic-Canadian sensibilities, this boggles the mind.

I'm wearing the kilt to demonstrate my Highland heritage to all and sundry so disregarding how it's viewed in the land of it's origin seems bizarre to me. I grew up in Cape Breton, a very Celtic part of New Scotland with a majority of people being descended from Highland Scots and where Scots Gaelic is still spoken daily in some corners. When kilted, I am an ambassador of this culture and so I feel a responsibility to accurately reflect that. But hey, maybe that's just me...

Well said, Nathan! I especially like your concluding sentence!

[rondo]

Certainly, anyone who has spent some time on this forum has heard (over and again) that the MacLeay paintings are not accurate daily wear, but considering the thread is a discussion of weaing the fly plaid, "Sunday best" seems appropriate.

Indeed Nathan times do change, but this does not happen on its own. If several folks make an alteration to the way they dress, slowly a new norm is created. While the mainsteram will allow fashion to stagnate on account of tradition, those who swim against the stream (Folks not in Scotland wearing kilts) create their own sense of style wich allows evolution to continue.

Sometimes I feel somewhat closterphobic in this forum. I find it ironic that on one hand folks regard the gentlemen in the MacLeay (and other) paintings to be well turned out and displaying a lack of uniformity that has become the standard of our day. People comment on the variety of jackets, waistcoats, belts, hose, shoes and sporrans. On the other hand they appear nervous to fit with the standards of our time, seeking acceptence and attempting to conform to the uniform of the day. Aside from those in Scotland, wearing the kilt within strict social rules for very specific events, we could certainly do no harm in being more open minded about our approach how we put together our kilted "kit". This could just be the ramblings of an odd duck, but then again aren't all of us (Once again besides the Scotland folk) odd ducks wearing kilts about amongst the sea of trousers?

Perfectly stated, Sir!
Rondo

[AFS1970]

For my two kilts I only have a plaid for one of them. I rather like it, but don't feel the need to wear it all the time.

For me the influence was that when I was a teenager and my family joined the local St. Andrews society, most of the gentlemen who had been around a while and certainly all those who were officers of the society wore plaids at formal events. Thus the people that gave me my initial instruction on TCHD wore them, and I started to also.

When I ordered my second kilt, I intended it to be for purely informal events, although I did wear it once formally and it worked out well enough. That time, obviously, I did not wear a plaid, as I don't have one in that tartan.

I am thinking if I end up coming into the funds at some point of a third kilt (seems like such a small number to so many of you) and that one I will order a plaid with, but more so that I have the option to wear it with or without one.

As for formal wear changing, I hate that it has and despite my wife telling me I was born in the wrong century, I will fight kicking and screaming the demise of formal wear.

[DyerStraits]

As for formal wear changing, I hate that it has and despite my wife telling me I was born in the wrong century, I will fight kicking and screaming the demise of formal wear.

I could not agree more. To Plaid Or Not Plaid would be a far less agonizing decision if everyone else would dress more formally when/where more formality is due. As the late James Coburn complained in an interview shortly before his death regarding the current crop of Hollywood Leading Men, "Nobody has style anymore". This is yet another reason why, when in doubt, I tend to overdress rather than underdress--it's a potential opportunity to subtly and silently goad the Habitually Casual into making a bit more effort to be a bit better turned out.

[Nathan]

1) I'm not sure wearing a plaid is more formal than not, just different. There are and were plaids for all levels of formality.
2) The saying "better to be overdressed than underdressed" misses the obvious point that it's best of all to be "appropriately dressed".

[DyerStraits]

1) I'm not sure wearing a plaid is more formal than not, just different. There are and were plaids for all levels of formality.
2) The saying "better to be overdressed than underdressed" misses the obvious point that it's best of all to be "appropriately dressed".

I completely agree--my point being that you're more likely to be appropriately dressed if you aim high rather than low.

[Jock Scot]

Do you know, I rather think many would be much better spending their hard earned loot on properly fitting kilt attire, by that I mean more of a tailored look, than chasing round after this that and the other accessory and then adding it to the often ill fitting basics. Those in the past who cut a dash in a superbly fitted dinner jackets, like Spencer Tracy, Fred Astaire, Humphrey Bogart, Richard Todd, Cary Grant and others had style even when wearing the same sort of attire as others. Their trick was to have well fitting outfits and it really is something that kilt wearers ought to bear in mind more often and it may work out less expensive in the long run. It does not always mean that one must visit the most expensive tailor, but it does require more than a certain amount of know how with what is actually required with basic kilt attire, as opposed to making do, and then the help of some skilled person with a needle and thread.