Jacket conversions...some thoughts.

**rondo** · 24th February 14, 08:42 PM

I am in the process of having 3 Saxon style jackets converted to kilt jackets. After perusing several threads it seems many feel that pocket flap location is a dead giveaway on converted jackets. Then I came upon these 2 pics [often posted in these forums] of King Edward and Lord Lovat, I doubt these are jacket conversions:

kingedward.jpg

lordlovatinfrontofhises.jpg

When I look at both of these photos it seems clear to me that if the pockets were placed any higher [especially in the case of Lord Lovat] it would render the pockets useless. As far back as the pockets are, if the were any higher, a man would need 2, maybe 3 elbows per arm to retrieve the contents of the pockets.

Anyone else have thoughts?

Rondo

**MacLowlife** · 24th February 14, 09:23 PM

I agree with you about the King, but Lord Lovat's jacket seems to me to be a possible conversion. Yes, the pockets seem to be as high as his arm will allow, but I am not convinced. Placing the pockets higher might make them slightly awkward, but they would look much more "normal". I think there is a proportion to be observed, that the width of the flap ought not to be (even close to) equal to the width of the space beneath it. Note the rest of his jacket- no epaulets, no fancy cuffs. The button stance is consistent with a 2 button sportcoat. But I don't know. He never discussed it with me.

Is there a tie breaker in the house?

**Highlander31** · 25th February 14, 01:02 AM

MacLowlife, I can't break your tie, however, I do have a photo of Lord Lovat (from the same Life Magazine article) mowing his lawn.

Mowing the lawn.jpg

**Jock Scot** · 25th February 14, 01:32 AM

I have no idea if Lord Lovat's jacket is a conversion, it does look as though it might be to me. It would be pretty much standard procedure to dress thus, for a kilted gentleman in the Highlands when gardening and for general informal and no doubt comfortable, casual attire. After all, one hardly needs to show off and dress to the nines, when one is doing one's own lawn at one's castle!

**Spartan Tartan** · 25th February 14, 03:16 AM

I don't use the pockets on my jacket to carry anything. Maybe inside pockets, but not the ones up for discussion here. For me, the astetic is the concern. His do not look bad to me, but I certainly would not move them simply to make the functional.

**Nathan** · 25th February 14, 05:18 AM

I think Lovat's jacket looks like a conversion due to both the low pockets and the hem. There are lots of reasons why he might have opted to convert the jacket even if he had others that were not converted. For example, imagine he got moth hole or stain in the lower part of the jacket that would be gone if he chose to convert it. Just my view on the matter.

**creagdhubh** · 25th February 14, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Nathan

I think Lovat's jacket looks like a conversion due to both the low pockets and the hem. There are lots of reasons why he might have opted to convert the jacket even if he had others that were not converted. For example, imagine he got moth hole or stain in the lower part of the jacket that would be gone if he chose to convert it. Just my view on the matter.

I agree. More than likely MacShimidh's jacket is indeed a conversion (which of course, doesn't matter to me in the slightest), it sure appears as such, and I have always maintained that conclusion after first seeing this photo many years ago.

**BCAC** · 25th February 14, 07:11 AM

Just because he was a Lord and had a castle doesn't necessarily mean that he was rolling in money, either. He may have needed to be thrifty. I see that he was mowing his own lawns (couldn't afford to pay a gardener?). Those castles did seem to drain a lot of money for their upkeep.

**MacLowlife** · 25th February 14, 07:57 AM

The US press is full of stories about Highclere castle and the money paid by the Downton Abbey crowd- and the need to apply that money to roofs and drains. I am fairly certain most Americans would never be able to set foot inside a castle were it not for death duties and the high cost of maintenance. Would you allow strangers to traipse through your living room if you didn't have to?

On another note, I was looking at the eBay stalking thread http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...47#post1220947 and OC Richard has posted a nice pic of a Stewart Christie jacket that seems to have always been a kilt jacket. Its pocket flaps are pretty low, too.

**Highlander31** · 25th February 14, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I have no idea if Lord Lovat's jacket is a conversion, it does look as though it might be to me. It would be pretty much standard procedure to dress thus, for a kilted gentleman in the Highlands when gardening and for general informal and no doubt comfortable, casual attire. After all, one hardly needs to show off and dress to the nines, when one is doing one's own lawn at one's castle!

It seems his choice of kilts, supports your thoughts on this, Jock.
His kilt has been rewoven (possibly the result of a pesky moth having had an uninvited meal at the Lords' expense.)