Which silk lining.

[harrymcmillan]

Hi,

Want to have a kilt with a silk lining. Which would be more suitable, crepe de chine or crepe backed satin? What weight material is best for 16oz wool kilt?

Regards

Harry

[Father Bill]

Hi!

Why?

[The Wizard of BC]

I would advise against a Silk for the liner in a kilt. Silk is a far more delicate fabric than other natural fibers and very prone to damage from sweat. It has a tendency to fail under even light stress.

Wonderful against your skin but the lining of a kilt is not usually against the skin.

The only reason for the liner is to hide the internal construction of the kilt. The pleat cut-aways, the stabilizer and interfacing. It needs to be fairly rugged and resist sweat pretty well, so most kiltmakers use a cotton fabric similar to a pillowcase or cotton broadcloth. A liner may be replaced two or three times over the life of the kilt.

I personally use Cotton broadcloth with a Canadian theme print. This allows for some customization and personalization, is inexpensive, easily replaceable, and is very suited to the job.

I know that is picking nits but there is a difference between a liner and lining. A liner is to cover up internal construction and a lining is to aid putting on a garment and to keep the outer fabric from catching on the skin. Jackets have a fabric that does both. It covers the internal interfacings and makes it easy to slide your arms into the sleeves. There fore jackets use a slippery fabric like satin. In kilts the only purpose is to hide the interfacing so kilt have liners.

[sydnie7]

Not knowing any better, I used satin for the lining of my first kilt (before finding this forum and buying Barb's wonderful book).

We found the slick lining made the kilt move around a lot during wearing, and shirts tend to come untucked. I expect silk would have the same unwanted effects.

[unixken]

...and as Steve suggests, it wouldn't hold up well to the potential abrasion it would suffer on the un-seen side, from it's contact with the canvas, etc.

[HarveyH]

Oh dear oh dear - where to start.

Silk is one of the toughest strongest natural fibres there is. MIT are involved in studies at the moment to try and understand just why it is so strong. Pound for pound it is stronger than steel. Which explains why it is used for things like parachutes.

Whilst I would agree that neither crepe de chine nor satin would be very suitable, as they are indeed lightweight cloth, a good natural silk or a raw silk lining would, however, be wonderful for a kilt.

I note that Matt Newsome lines his kilts with natural silk http://newhousehighland.com/kilt_details.html and I think we would all agree that Matt would be a kilt maker who knows something of the history and tradition of the garment.

So as long as you don't think in terms of the lightweight shiny silks it could make a very good lining for a kilt. Noil silk or Tussah silk would both be good.

As for "liner" or "lining" I do not believe that this is a distinction which would be understood in tailoring in the UK so I presume that this is a US or Canadian term - although again I note that Matt uses the term "lining" as does Barb T in her her book TAOK.

[unixken]

The strength of silk (as in "stronger than steel") lies in it's tensile strength... the force required to pull something to the point where it breaks. Not in it's resistance to abrasion (which is a cutting/grinding force.) It's abrasion resistance is only moderate.

I realize that Matt lines his kilts with silk (I have one of his kilts on order). But as was also noted, silk does not necessarily hold up well to sweat, and a well cared for (but well worn) kilt may have it's lining replaced at least once over it's lifetime because of these factors.

Silk is nice stuff. But it's not indestructible.

[HarveyH]

... It's abrasion resistance is only moderate.

I realize that Matt lines his kilts with silk (I have one of his kilts on order). But as was also noted, silk does not necessarily hold up well to sweat, and a well cared for (but well worn) kilt may have it's lining replaced at least once over it's lifetime because of these factors.

Silk is nice stuff. But it's not indestructible.

I quite agree that a lining may have to be replaced in the lifetime of a kilt, but that is true of cotton or linen. A good raw silk would be significantly harder wearing than many cottons.

Also I have to say that the weather in the UK, and perhaps up in Argyle more so, is such that sweat is not really going to be such an issue.

[tpa]

Also I have to say that the weather in the UK, and perhaps up in Argyle more so, is such that sweat is not really going to be such an issue.

In the winter perhaps, but hiking uphill through the bracken in the summer? Midges and ticks permitting of course.

Using Steve's definition of lining as opposed to a liner, that job would be best performed by a slip/petticoat/under kilt, which for those of us who are allergic to wool, is more or less a necessity. Regarding silk, I can only say that my silk long johns and vests, which I wear for outdoor winter activities, such as skiing, have a nasty tendency to fall apart after a while.

[Stoff]

I do not know how well silk would do, but if I were to use silk I would use raw silk. My big experiences with raw silk is in making pre-18th century shirts and SCA style fencing armor. My experience there is that it wears like iron. In field testing 4 layers of raw silk seam to be able to resist 500-800 newtons of concentrated force. other than that is is extremely comfortable.

As to kilts, I have made three and they were all lined with linen. The one I still have is around 25 years old and I have still to need to replace the lining.

I hope that helps.

Stoff