Cameron of Locheil - some help needed

[guardsman]

Poor Jock , gets crap for being right LOL , God Bless Him

[figheadair]

Peter, is it your hunch that no purported pre-1745 tartans remain with us today and that all such early clan tartan roads lead to Wilsons?

Oh absolutely not. There are definitely some clan era patterns still around in a standard production (although the version may not be exactly the same as the original, MacDonald of Kingsburgh for instance). I'd actually include ones up to c1760 on the presumpton that anything from the early Proscription period was probably a pre-'45 sett. I've written up some of them and the majority of these tartans fall into that category.

[Jock Scot]

Poor Jock , gets crap for being right LOL , God Bless Him

I have to confess that I was somewhat nonplussed(old meaning) by the "broadside" fired in my direction, but hey-ho such is life. I also have to admit that the candid observation of Guardsman's above, did raise a much needed smile to my lips.

[Domehead]

I'm here, should anyone want to address me directly.

Ryan M Liddell

[Grizzly]

To me as a member of the Clan Cameron association it's quite simple, Loch Eil is a Loch and Lochiel is the name of the Chief of the Clan Cameron, I don't see what the problem is? Jock was merely pointing out the difference. To take umbrage when text messages contain no intonation is questionable at the least. Jock was merely stating the case as a highland Scot, which he is perfectly entitled to do, as are you with your view, just because you don't agree is no reason to throw your toys out of the pram!

[guardsman]

Duck! Rofl

[Grizzly]

Too strong Colin?

[Domehead]

It is not my view. The Scottish phraseology, Name of Place, is legally specific. It is also unique to Scotland, specific from England usage and that of Albanach: Four-kingdom usage - see the earldom of Atholl & philologic analysis of "Comitatus de Atholia" as it relates to Robert, Duncan and Andrew de Atholia, cC14th Clan Donnachaidh revisionism.

The Family Cameron can change it to "Lochiel" all they want. However, the instant it is expressed "Cameron of ...", it should be Loch Eil or Locheil. Otherwise, the established family being referenced is not of the hereditary property of Lochaber, near Linnhe. This is not my view. This is what it is. I am intentionally defending myself so as not to draw any support.

There are things which are perpetuated for nothing more than ideological convenience, will-full ignorance or bliss-full patronage. Hence the acceptance of many Sobiesky-Stuart setts. Today, in order to balance their cultural imbuement, one must rationalize their ubiquity with "wont and use". Perhaps we should simply educate.

As for throwing toys out of the pram...the condescension from some is regrettable and frustrating. For whatever reason, people who are subject to said condescension are only willing to reference it on PM. Therefore, those whom compose as such illicit the ill-will, then have the audacity to phrase an apology in a manner suggesting the reader is remiss, "I'm sorry you didn't understand me" blah, blah, blah The antagonist takes ZERO responsibility for any culpability.

Considering the well established psycho phenomenon "preconception", it is unlikely anything one may suggest, recommend, prove, show, demonstrate is going to change any minds. Unless, of course, you are one of the cool kids.

Ryan

[Father Bill]

Good grief gents - spelling is something that really is only a couple of hundred years old at most. That means that there will be many, many residuals. My clan for example: Sinclair / St. Clair / Santo Claro / Sinkler and so it goes. At one time they were all the same thing.

Let us neither get our knickers into knots, nor descend into the trenches to toss mudpies in either direction!

[Grizzly]

Well said Bill, rest assured no knickers are twisted this side of the pond. :-)