The end of traditional tartan - a personal view

**ASinclair** · 20th May 14, 07:50 AM

My kilt is in Sinclair Green (Old Colours) tartan from Strathmore Woollen Company and has a true selvedge.

**Elf** · 20th May 14, 02:08 PM

Does not having a true selvage mean that a hem MUST be turned? As many sources relate, selvage .vs. turned hem effects the look of the final product. Only one of my kilts did I turn the hem (because I wanted a different stripe on the bottom than was woven). That worries me. I need to follow the links further.

**kiltedrennie** · 20th May 14, 07:21 PM

A true selvedge is created by the weft thread looping back at the end of each row. It requires a shuttle loom. Modern industrial looms do not use a shuttle. Hopefully there will be enough demand for artisan tartan to support cloth made from a traditional loom.

**Domehead** · 20th May 14, 07:38 PM

Could someone please explain further, the "glue" process of a tuck selvage?

**Calgacus** · 21st May 14, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Elf

Does not having a true selvage mean that a hem MUST be turned? As many sources relate, selvage .vs. turned hem effects the look of the final product. Only one of my kilts did I turn the hem (because I wanted a different stripe on the bottom than was woven). That worries me. I need to follow the links further.

No, these 'new' types of selvedge do not need turned, they will not unravel and act very much as a true selvedge does. We are bemoaning the fact that they don't look quite as good as a true selvedge, and more importantly that we are facing the potential loss of yet another weaving technique and detail of highland dress.

**KentuckyCeltophile** · 21st May 14, 03:38 AM

I bought my first kilt while on holiday in Scotland. Honestly, I didn't know anything about kilt seems, weaves, or selvedges. I knew that 5 yard is no as dressy and 8 yard is more dressy...that was it. My kilt seemed to fit my Scottish heritage (Stewart) and it looked great. Now, I come to Xmarks and find so much information about the minutia of kilts and tartan fabric. There is no doubt that I am not an expert about kilts, but I honestly do appreciate tradition. I love having a handle on the past, which is why I want to wear a kilt. Knowing what I know now, I would love to have a handmade kilt in an ancient pattern. I love history. Furthermore, I agree that the internet has destroyed so many small dealers in all areas of business--we can have it fast and cheap therefore we get it. Having a global economy cheapens the value of handmade, artisian craftmanship. I no longer have to go to Scotland for souvenirs, I can just order it online. So, next kilt is for sure going to be something of great value to myself and the person who makes it.

Thanks for the heads up once again.
KC

P.S.-I would also like an extremely casual kilt like that of a utilikilt fashion.

**Downunder Kilt** · 21st May 14, 04:15 AM

KC, please understand that your want for a kilt in an ancient pattern is really what you consider ancient. Most of the clan tartans were only taken up in the second decade of the 19th century. Tartans, that are still available today and were around before that time are few and far between. As for the more material in a kilt makes it more dressier, I would put one of my 4 yard box pleats up against any 8 yarder for "dressiness". Cheers

**KentuckyCeltophile** · 21st May 14, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt

KC, please understand that your want for a kilt in an ancient pattern is really what you consider ancient. Most of the clan tartans were only taken up in the second decade of the 19th century. Tartans, that are still available today and were around before that time are few and far between. As for the more material in a kilt makes it more dressier, I would put one of my 4 yard box pleats up against any 8 yarder for "dressiness". Cheers

Yes, Downunder, thanks for the words of warning. I have learned a lot since my first experience. I was using that as an example of my lack of knowledge at that time. I realized that you don't necessarily need an 8 yard to be dressy and that any tartan can now be donned for any occasion (ok, except like camo or tiger stripes of course). There are many other things I have learned since joining up here with Xmarks. Some of the companies that advertise here are very educational about the different tartans.

As for the ancient plaid, I understand the "ancient plaid" is some kinda gimmick to attract sales. I want a tartan specific to my family line (or region, district, etc) or whatever is closely related to them. But I need to research my family line further to know what that might be. With me, it's about connecting to the past and identifying with my families ancestry. I don't care if it looks dressy or looks like Liam Neeson just walked out of the loch and dried himself off with it. I just want that historical and familial connection. That is what I have in mind at least. Furthermore, having that special tartan weaved by hand, made my hands by an artisan and not computerized machine parts feels more authentic to me (a mental thing probably, but there it is).

Sláinte, Cheers, Regards and all other forms of kind greetings,
KC

**Tobus** · 21st May 14, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Domehead

Could someone please explain further, the "glue" process of a tuck selvage?

I'd love to hear a description of this process as well, as I had never heard before now that there was "glue" involved.

For posterity's sake, though, it's pretty easy to identify a tuck selvedge. You can see where the raw yarn ends are woven or 'tucked' back through the edge of the cloth, and appear as a fuzzy line about 1/2" or so from the edge. The twill pattern in this area is also more dense, because there are more threads than usual being crammed into this area. See the photo below (this is Lochcarron cloth on one of my kilts). Notice the fuzziness of the yarn ends just below the bottom black stripe.

The feel of the cloth is different in this area, too. It feels flatter and tighter. I would imagine that this is due mostly to the fact that the thread count is more dense here, but if there really is glue involved, that would also explain it. I'm curious what they use for this. It's definitely not a kind of glue that you can see or feel. Maybe something more like a starch?

**figheadair** · 21st May 14, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Calgacus

Hi Tobus,

Yes, Dalgleish weave a true selvedge whereas Lochcarron is tuck.

To quote a well know phrase There's trouble at mill! and apparently all is not what it purports to be. . Speaking to a number of commercial weavers at a recent meeting they said that there was no weaving currently going on at the Dalgliesh Mill. I have no idea if that’s true but my recent attempts to contact them have been unsuccessful