The end of traditional tartan - a personal view

[Tobus]

Another reason to have a proper selvedge which means that there is no right side to the cloth. Having said that, commercial cloth is finished (rolled) on one side so even material with a true selevedge often comes with a note saying 'good face' or the like. No such problem with handwoven cloth though.

Don't they usually make repairs to one side of the cloth? As I recall from past discussions (and checked my own kilts to confirm), there will often be small knots or bumps on the "bad" face of the cloth from minor repairs or corrections which are done during the inspection process. I'm told that this is usually done consistently on one side, which corresponds with a particular direction of the twill in relation to the selvedge, although sometimes it does end up backwards (i.e. with the "good" side out, the twill on the kilt will run the opposite direction than normal).

Which is to say that I agree; even with a true selvedge, there will still be a good face and a bad face, due to repairs and corrections after weaving.

[chasem]

To add support to Tobus' post, I recently received some Lochcarron 16oz which is woven with a true selvedge. One side does have many knots and imperfections that would not be acceptable as the outside of a kilt.

[Calgacus]

To add support to Tobus' post, I recently received some Lochcarron 16oz which is woven with a true selvedge. One side does have many knots and imperfections that would not be acceptable as the outside of a kilt.

Both my kilt and the sample swatch I mentioned are Lochcarron 16oz and do not have a true selvedge. Maybe it depends on which loom the cloth happened to be woven on? That really would make things tricky if you really wanted a true selvedge.

[figheadair]

To add support to Tobus' post, I recently received some Lochcarron 16oz which is woven with a true selvedge. One side does have many knots and imperfections that would not be acceptable as the outside of a kilt.

That's just lazy finishing. When I weave I go over the cloth at the end, unpick the knots and weave-in any broken ends. Result, no good or bad side.

[creagdhubh]

To quote a well know phrase There's trouble at mill! and apparently all is not what it purports to be. . Speaking to a number of commercial weavers at a recent meeting they said that there was no weaving currently going on at the Dalgliesh Mill. I have no idea if that’s true but my recent attempts to contact them have been unsuccessful

Oh dear...

[creagdhubh]

I've got to say that I don't particularly like the sound of this news from Dalgliesh.

It would be a pity to lose such an important resource, even if they were downright rude the last time we went to commission a run of the R'lyeh sett (we ended up using Marton Mills instead).

ith:

I agree, but Dalgliesh is becoming VERY expensive. Remember the Chattan kilt with an enlarged sett (8 yards; 15oz custom weave from Dalgliesh) I had started a thread about some time ago? Well, after inquiring with my kilt-maker about a price estimate, the total cost for one kilt came extremely close to $1,000 US. I'm sorry, but that's more than what I am willing to pay for a single kilt.

[creagdhubh]

Both my kilt and the sample swatch I mentioned are Lochcarron 16oz and do not have a true selvedge. Maybe it depends on which loom the cloth happened to be woven on? That really would make things tricky if you really wanted a true selvedge.

Right. The three, 8 yard Macpherson kilts that I once owned (sold them off) from Lochcarron's Strome range, all had a tuck selvedge.

[Tobus]

I agree, but Dalgliesh is becoming VERY expensive. Remember the Chattan kilt with an enlarged sett (8 yards; 15oz custom weave from Dalgliesh) I had started a thread about some time ago? Well, after inquiring with my kilt-maker about a price estimate, the total cost for one kilt came extremely close to $1,000 US. I'm sorry, but that's more than what I am willing to pay for a single kilt.

Wow, that is indeed pretty steep. Knowing what I know about their pricing, or at least what it was 2 years ago, I have a pretty good idea how much it has gone up per yard, based on your number. I was fortunate that they decided to make my Reproduction Colquhoun one of their 'standard' tartans right at the time I ordered it, which saved me many hundreds of dollars (I was ordering more than twice the yardage needed for a typical kilt). I was very amazed - and relieved - at the price difference between a small custom run and a standard tartan.

From what I know of their process, though, it is incredibly time-consuming to set up the machine for a custom run. So much so that it's not surprising that small custom runs are so expensive as to be unaffordable to most. Not to mention that every moment the machine is not running, it's not making money; it's losing money. Either they are getting tired of losing money on these small runs, and charging what it actually costs, or they're trying to price it so high that it discourages small custom runs. Either way, I'm sure that it was something that had to be done in order to keep the business profitable (and I hope that these news reports don't portend something bad at DC Dalgliesh).

Custom weaving on these old machines really is an art form, and I can certainly understand how it just isn't profitable to do small runs with today's competition. It truly does come down to cost, and one has to *really* want the custom tartan made by an artisan. Sadly, only a very select few will be willing (or able) to afford it.

[creagdhubh]

I was fortunate that they decided to make my Reproduction Colquhoun one of their 'standard' tartans right at the time I ordered it, which saved me many hundreds of dollars (I was ordering more than twice the yardage needed for a typical kilt). I was very amazed - and relieved - at the price difference between a small custom run and a standard tartan.

Me too. The Reproduction Macpherson is also one of Dalgliesh's 'standard' tartans. I had ordered mine (from Barb T.) around the same time you ordered your Colquhoun.

[StevieR]

I agree, but Dalgliesh is becoming VERY expensive. Remember the Chattan kilt with an enlarged sett (8 yards; 15oz custom weave from Dalgliesh) I had started a thread about some time ago? Well, after inquiring with my kilt-maker about a price estimate, the total cost for one kilt came extremely close to $1,000 US. I'm sorry, but that's more than what I am willing to pay for a single kilt.

Is this really too much for a custom weave? $1,000 dollars is just under £600 at the moment. My 8 yard, heavyweight kilt in a tartan that I assume is popular enough to be available "off the shelf", sewn by a master kiltmaker, cost £435. For a custom weave the extra £165 would still make this option cheaper than my kilt if I had chosen Kinloch Anderson to make it, who would have charged me £615.

I know Kinloch Anderson charge high end prices, but the bigger kilt making companies in the UK aren't far behind. Comparing the two, I'd view the cost of a kilt using a custom woven, high quality cloth but made by a smaller enterprise that offers better value (and in my experience a better product) as a pretty good deal.