Full mask sporrans revisited...

[Jock Scot]

This is fascinating to me. Is there really the perception that you can wear Highland attire but if it looks too Highland, you're a poseur? So if I was a major landholder from the Highlands, the large furry sporran is ok, but if not, I should know my place and dress in a more pedestrian fashion? Still trying to grasp Scotland's current views on class consciousness as it relates to fashion.

I have been thinking about this and it is difficult to come up with a short answer and it is even more difficult to come up with an answer that is not going to have the effect of an atom bomb on this website. That is not what I intend, so please don't shoot the messenger!

Yes there are still plenty of old fur(broad decription to include hair sporrans as well)sporrans worn in Scotland, by the Scots. I cannot think of many Scots who are wearing a new one though. There is one that comes to mind who is a member here and no doubt there are more dotted about, but let us just say new fur sporrans are not common, worn by a real Scot, in my experience.

Many Scots wear old and probbably valuable fur sporrans, why not? Why buy a new one when Grand Father's will do perfectly well?It may well be the only sporran they have and the fur sporran covers all dress options. Whether in the course of time these sporrans will be replaced with new fur sporrans is any one's guess, but personally I doubt it. Wild cats, otters, badgers, seals, pine martens are now all protected by law and with the exception of badgers and possibly seals, with good reason as they are nationaly fairly scarce. Yes indeed there are legal exceptions, such as road kill, that allow sporran makers leaway, but I can't say that I have ever seen a Scottish wildcat zapped upon the road.

So, Nathan I think you misread the class aspect more than a bit. Yes the Duke of Gumby may well be wearing a 70 year old otter sporran and the Chief of Clan MacOnion may well be wearing a rather battered and moth eaten wildcat around his waist at a gathering because that is what they have. 70 years ago is about the very end of the Victorian style excesses on Highland wildlife and their use for attire. The days of anything that was a danger to the lairds grouse, or salmon was shot on sight had almost gone. Mainly because the otter, pine marten, wildcat were almost extinct! Sense prevailed and some of those excesses have been reversed. The grouse are still there , the otter is more generally distributed and the Scottish wildcat is creating more of a problem for itself by inter-breeding with the domestic cat than with upsetting game keepers!

Now to the tricky bit! Wannabes, have and always will be around. Whether that be at the yacht club, gun club, golf club, military shows, Rodeo's(have I spelt that correctly?) or, Highland games etc.. We have people playing at being Scotsmen and trying to be more Scots than the Scots is a dead sure give away and the inappropriate use of the cromach, plaid, and in your face fur sporrans are just some of the signs of that. Lets face it, 100 years ago only the wealthy, and that probably included land ownership, could pop down to Hamilton and Inches and buy a new fur silver topped sporran and those sporrans are still going today. The only difference is that these days and in many cases the estate is a quarter of the size of what it was a 100 years ago and the overdaft is 10 times bigger and the propper raw material for making fur sporrans is vitually unavailable! And the wannabe's carry on playing at being a Laird and or, playing at being a Scot with their often inapropriate, non native and in your face fur sporrans.

[Nathan]

And the wannabe's carry on playing at being a Laird and or, playing at being a Scot.

Thanks for sharing your perspective and I hope the things you have been dealing with are going better.

My response is simply to show how the same situation looks from where I'm standing and to share my perspective, not to light the fuse on the atom bomb.

First, a question: Take the overseas element out of the equation as I think it muddies the waters. If you saw a Scot of modest middle class means dressed in the fashion described out of a love for his culture, would you think he was playing at being a Laird? Say a man with a job and an education but certainly no title, estate etc... just Mr. MacNeil, the accountant from Barra or perhaps Mr. MacAuley, the shop keeper from Lewis. Would he just instinctively know not to wear such finery out of cultural and class taboo?

It's certainly not my intention to play at being a Laird, and I don't have to play at being a Gael - it's simply what I am. That said, assuming I'm going to wear the kilt as a symbol of pride in my island, my clan, my people and our ancestors, I'm in a bit of a quandary. If I take a modern "polo shirt and ghillie brogues" approach, I'm not respecting TCHD's style conventions and if I nail the TCHD conventions in all their splendour, I look like a "wannabe" playing at being a Laird?

There are no Lairds in Canada and my attire will cause no confusion. My parents owned more land than the average residential home owner and far less than a Scottish estate (10 acres) and while it increased their municipal tax bill, it was absolutely nothing special.

When representing Clan Donald at a local Highland games, my style choices are based on the idea that I should like to represent Highland fashion the way it is traditionally worn in the Highlands, if possible. It is certainly not a costume because, as you know, I've been wearing a kilt for most of my life, and the kilt is no rarity or foreign garment where I come from. That said, many people at the games in the part of Canada in which I now reside, have never seen the kilt worn in its natural environment so who can blame them for taking the brave heart, pipe band or pirate shirt approach?

As such, I try to lead by example. If I wear my day plaid, it's because it's cold and may potentially get colder and I'd rather not cover my outfit with my Barbour if there's no rain falling. A cromack is the perfect leaning post for a long day in a clan tent or watching the bands or heavy events and, as an avid hiker, I've always used a stick. Mine were always a lot more rustic so having a nicely appointed stick is very handy indeed.

I once caused offence here by suggesting that we need not all dress like "toffs". I'm not from the UK so if that term carries an overly pejorative connotation, please forgive me. So perhaps the language was impolite, but was I onto something? I suppose the question remains. Do the gentry have special, unwritten license to lean on sticks, own their grandfather's sporran or stay warm with a length of tartan rather than sewn up Goretex or waxed cotton?

I thought it was a circlet crest and eagle feathers that separated my chief's rank from mine and that any man could rightly wear a bonnet, a plaid or carry a stick. Is there a difference between the written rules and the unwritten conventions?

[creagdhubh]

I have been thinking about this and it is difficult to come up with a short answer and it is even more difficult to come up with an answer that is not going to have the effect of an atom bomb on this website. That is not what I intend, so please don't shoot the messenger!

Yes there are still plenty of old fur(broad decription to include hair sporrans as well)sporrans worn in Scotland, by the Scots. I cannot think of many Scots who are wearing a new one though. There is one that comes to mind who is a member here and no doubt there are more dotted about, but let us just say new fur sporrans are not common, worn by a real Scot, in my experience.

Many Scots wear old and probbably valuable fur sporrans, why not? Why buy a new one when Grand Father's will do perfectly well?It may well be the only sporran they have and the fur sporran covers all dress options. Whether in the course of time these sporrans will be replaced with new fur sporrans is any one's guess, but personally I doubt it. Wild cats, otters, badgers, seals, pine martens are now all protected by law and with the exception of badgers and possibly seals, with good reason as they are nationaly fairly scarce. Yes indeed there are legal exceptions, such as road kill, that allow sporran makers leaway, but I can't say that I have ever seen a Scottish wildcat zapped upon the road.

So, Nathan I think you misread the class aspect more than a bit. Yes the Duke of Gumby may well be wearing a 70 year old otter sporran and the Chief of Clan MacOnion may well be wearing a rather battered and moth eaten wildcat around his waist at a gathering because that is what they have. 70 years ago is about the very end of the Victorian style excesses on Highland wildlife and their use for attire. The days of anything that was a danger to the lairds grouse, or salmon was shot on sight had almost gone. Mainly because the otter, pine marten, wildcat were almost extinct! Sense prevailed and some of those excesses have been reversed. The grouse are still there , the otter is more generally distributed and the Scottish wildcat is creating more of a problem for itself by inter-breeding with the domestic cat than with upsetting game keepers!

Now to the tricky bit! Wannabes, have and always will be around. Whether that be at the yacht club, gun club, golf club, military shows, Rodeo's(have I spelt that correctly?) or, Highland games etc.. We have people playing at being Scotsmen and trying to be more Scots than the Scots is a dead sure give away and the inappropriate use of the cromach, plaid, and in your face fur sporrans are just some of the signs of that. Lets face it, 100 years ago only the wealthy, and that probably included land ownership, could pop down to Hamilton and Inches and buy a new fur silver topped sporran and those sporrans are still going today. The only difference is that these days and in many cases the estate is a quarter of the size of what it was a 100 years ago and the overdaft is 10 times bigger! And the wannabe's carry on playing at being a Laird and or, playing at being a Scot.

Who are these so-called, "wannabe's," I wonder? Examples? Given the right context, I see nothing wrong with the appropriate use of a cromach, plaid, and full-mask sporran. Is this what you mean?

[Jock Scot]

Oh dear Nathan I fear the fuse is alight.

If the coal man from Barra has a fur sporran and wants to wear it, no one is going to bat an eye, least of all the Duke of Gumby.

We now come to the can of worms that ignites this very question of Canadians(for example) being Canadian, they may have Scots roots, but that still makes them a Canadian, not a Scot. I will proceed no further with this discussion as we all know where it leads.

[Calgacus]

Nathan, Jock, Kyle,

Very interesting questions have been brought up here and I would need to read, re-read, and think long and hard before posting any sort of real response.

I'd just like to say that I think there is a lot going on in Scotland right now in terms of identity and our relationship to the rest of the world. Not just in terms of that-which-cannot-be-named, but in much broader terms. I think we Scots need to take a long, hard look in the mirror before making any judgments about others, and I would ask that our overseas cousins be gentle and understanding with us in the mean time.

This could be a great discussion, or it could all end up in tears. Let's all please tread carefully.

[CMcG]

Oh dear Nathan I fear the fuse is alight.

If the coal man from Barra has a fur sporran and wants to wear it, no one is going to bat an eye, least of all the Duke of Gumby.

We now come to the can of worms that ignites this very question of Canadians(for example) being Canadian, they may have Scots roots, but that still makes them a Canadian, not a Scot. I will proceed no further with this discussion as we all know where it leads.

No fuss, no muss. It leads to Scottish-Canadians

[Nathan]

Oh dear Nathan I fear the fuse is alight.

If the coal man from Barra has a fur sporran and wants to wear it, no one is going to bat an eye, least of all the Duke of Gumby.

We now come to the can of worms that ignites this very question of Canadians(for example) being Canadian, they may have Scots roots, but that still makes them a Canadian, not a Scot. I will proceed no further with this discussion as we all know where it leads.

Tha mi à Alba Nuadh agus rugadh mi ann an eilean Cheap Breatainn. Gabh mo leisgeul, ach 's e Ghàidheal Chanèideanach.

Chan eil mi a' fuireach ann an Alba ach 's e Albannach a th'annam, tapadh leibh. Tha ni nam Alba Nuadhach agus Is Gàidheal mi.

Bi tu a' strìth 's chan eil dòigh gun tuig thu chaoidh an gaol a tha fo aisne mo chlèibh. 'S e Albannach a th' annam, nam chridhe, nam fhuil 's nam ainm.

Sloinneadh: Natan Easbaig mac Domhnaill Ulraig mhic Ulraig 'ic Aonghais 'ic Iain 'ic Aonghais 'ic Calum... 'ic Ailein 'ic Ragnhaill 'ic Eoin 'ic Aonghais Og 'ic Aonghais Mhor 'ic Domhnaill 'ic Ragnhaill 'ic Somhairle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Breton_Island

http://www.gaeliccollege.edu/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Canadian

http://gaelic.novascotia.ca/

http://www.gaelic.ca/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Gaelic

http://www.halifaxgaelic.ca/

[McMurdo]

Jock
I respect your right to stay out of the thread from here on out. I just wanted to add my perspective as I am in the photo with Nathan posted above. My father gave me one sporran, it was made in Aberdeen in 1950 by A&J Scott and co. and is a simple brown day sporran. The jacket I am wearing was needed that day as the weather did fluctuate throughout the day, almost every 10 minutes, it was purchased used, on consignment through a somewhat local tartan shop. The kilt was my twin brother's and was given to me after he was married in it and it hung in his closet for at least 5 years, that is unfortunately the story of many kilts both within and without Scotland, they are worn once and hung up to be used as moth food. I am wearing the ABF tie, and a tattersall shirt. The Mackie Balmoral I think finishes off the outfit nicely. So now that I have addressed my outfit, I will go onto other matters.

My parents left Scotland in 1953 and if you asked them today, though they are undoubtedly Scottish, they will call themselves Canadian. They are proud of their past yet look to their future. We were brought up knowing where the family came from and were taught to be proud of that past. Every weekend on CFRB radio we would listen to the Calling all Britons show. Here is a link about the show and Ray Sonin the host:
http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/i...php%3Fid%3D424

My dad would wear his kilt from time to time but not often, though we were exposed to our family history on a daily basis. Am I a Scot? No but I am a first generation Canadian. If you were to visit my Canada you might see how much influence Scotland has had here from the place names there is no doubt that the Scots were a defining force in Canada, our first Prime Minister was born in Aberdeen for example. The traditions have been kept alive in my family and countless others in Canada, and we all know who we are and who we are not. I am proud of the fact that I am Canadian but I am equally proud of where my family came from. It is a hard thing to explain all of this as it is simply part of me. In short I am not playing at being Scottish nor am I a poser. I am simply someone who was born in Canada and not Scotland, I feel I have every right to wear the kilt and attend Highland Games, Burns Nights etc.

[creagdhubh]

Well said, Glen.

[Peter Crowe]

Nathan, Jock, Kyle,

Very interesting questions have been brought up here and I would need to read, re-read, and think long and hard before posting any sort of real response.

I'd just like to say that I think there is a lot going on in Scotland right now in terms of identity and our relationship to the rest of the world. Not just in terms of that-which-cannot-be-named, but in much broader terms. I think we Scots need to take a long, hard look in the mirror before making any judgments about others, and I would ask that our overseas cousins be gentle and understanding with us in the mean time.

This could be a great discussion, or it could all end up in tears. Let's all please tread carefully.

I agree with you Calgacus, being a Scots expatriate in America I feel my son is just as entitled to receive his cultural patrimony from me as if I had stayed at home and his mother emigrated there.

One's identity is complex and partly inherited through family, partly a result of socio-economic circumstance, partly through socialisation and acculturation, and partly chosen by one's own will.

I for one have learned to concern myself with my own identity and allow others the same privilege.

As to Scotland's people, they have always been a bit more ethnically heterogeneous than might appear on the surface. The warp and weft tartan analogy used by Mr. Salmond contains more than a kernel of truth.

One can dislike seeing the kilt disrespected but by and large those on this forum who self-define as traditionalists are respectful of THCD, and people like them spend significantly more of their income on it than I do. This is a net benefit to me, because when I wish to purchase a new kilt or THCD accessories the artisans who make these wonderful goods will still be trading, in no small matter due to the Scots Diaspora descendents who keep them in business.