Full mask sporrans revisited...

[creagdhubh]

One can dislike seeing the kilt disrespected but by and large those on this forum who self-define as traditionalists are respectful of THCD, and people like them spend significantly more of their income on it than I do. This is a net benefit to me, because when I wish to purchase a new kilt or THCD accessories the artisans who make these wonderful goods will still be trading, in no small matter due to the Scots Diapora descendents who keep them in business.

I absolutely love your conclusionary paragraph, Peter. Very well said.

[BCAC]

Which I certainly understand, and is why I am not telling anyone who likes these sporrans not to wear them. They simply are not for me, in the circles I travel.

Rondo, if you had stated originally that you dress to please others rather than to please yourself, I would not have taken the trouble to post all that ethicall stuff. I thought that I was helping someone that liked full mask sporrans but didn't like the idea of the animal being killed especially to make a sporran. "They simply are not for me in the circles that I travel" is completely different from "I just can't wear something that was killed simply so I might wear it as an accessory".

[Orionson]

Jock
I respect your right to stay out of the thread from here on out. I just wanted to add my perspective as I am in the photo with Nathan posted above. My father gave me one sporran, it was made in Aberdeen in 1950 by A&J Scott and co. and is a simple brown day sporran. The jacket I am wearing was needed that day as the weather did fluctuate throughout the day, almost every 10 minutes, it was purchased used, on consignment through a somewhat local tartan shop. The kilt was my twin brother's and was given to me after he was married in it and it hung in his closet for at least 5 years, that is unfortunately the story of many kilts both within and without Scotland, they are worn once and hung up to be used as moth food. I am wearing the ABF tie, and a tattersall shirt. The Mackie Balmoral I think finishes off the outfit nicely. So now that I have addressed my outfit, I will go onto other matters.

My parents left Scotland in 1953 and if you asked them today, though they are undoubtedly Scottish, they will call themselves Canadian. They are proud of their past yet look to their future. We were brought up knowing where the family came from and were taught to be proud of that past. Every weekend on CFRB radio we would listen to the Calling all Britons show. Here is a link about the show and Ray Sonin the host:
http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/i...php%3Fid%3D424

My dad would wear his kilt from time to time but not often, though we were exposed to our family history on a daily basis. Am I a Scot? No but I am a first generation Canadian. If you were to visit my Canada you might see how much influence Scotland has had here from the place names there is no doubt that the Scots were a defining force in Canada, our first Prime Minister was born in Aberdeen for example. The traditions have been kept alive in my family and countless others in Canada, and we all know who we are and who we are not. I am proud of the fact that I am Canadian but I am equally proud of where my family came from. It is a hard thing to explain all of this as it is simply part of me. In short I am not playing at being Scottish nor am I a poser. I am simply someone who was born in Canada and not Scotland, I feel I have every right to wear the kilt and attend Highland Games, Burns Nights etc.

McMurdo, I am deeply saddened that you have felt so powerfully compelled into feeling that you should have to explain yourself. Equally, also, Nathan. No explanation, or implicit apology is necessary, or required. Full stop.

Up to this point, I have judiciously avoided wading into this particular aspect of what I have otherwise found to be a very interesting and useful thread. (Again, thank you, Nathan.) However, I find myself no longer able to remain silent in view of some of the narrow-minded, unnecessarily offensive and obviously hurtful comments which have tainted an otherwise reasonable thread.

[McMurdo]

McMurdo, I am deeply saddened that you have felt so powerfully compelled into feeling that you should have to explain yourself. Equally, also, Nathan. No explanation, or implicit apology is necessary, or required. Full stop.

Up to this point, I have judiciously avoided wading into this particular aspect of what I have otherwise found to be a very interesting and useful thread. (Again, thank you, Nathan.) However, I find myself no longer able to remain silent in view of some of the narrow-minded, unnecessarily offensive and obviously hurtful comments which have tainted an otherwise reasonable thread.

I did not feel that I needed to explain myself I did however think I should add my perspective as a first generation Canadian. One thing that I think is obvious to some and really the white elephant in the room is that if not for the dispora the tartan industry would be in serious trouble.

[Singlemalt]

I always find it is interesting the twisted even tortuous path a conversation can take. Nathan starts with what seems like a simple question about a small unique part of traditional Highland attire and we end up debating issues of fundamental human values; the ethical treatment of animals and the endless debate over who owns cultural heritage. I believe neither topic has a right or final answer. You have to come to your decision on what you are comfortable with based on your own life experience starting with the values you learned on your mothers knee and all those that follow. I have thought a lot about both and know where I stand but would not try and impose my conclusions on others.

On the issue of animal use I am a hunter and angler and a significant portion of the protein on my table comes from the wild, I would estimate 30%. My moral compass tells me if the animal taken is from a healthy sustainable population, I do so in the most humane way possible and I make full use of its body, I have every right to its use. I am not harming nature, I am part of it.

I hesitate to get into the second subject as I have before here and too deeply, and it caused me some anger and sadness. However, I have come to the conclusion that I know damn well who and what I am and I don't require any body else's permission to be me.

[Nathan]

McMurdo, I am deeply saddened that you have felt so powerfully compelled into feeling that you should have to explain yourself. Equally, also, Nathan. No explanation, or implicit apology is necessary, or required. Full stop.

Up to this point, I have judiciously avoided wading into this particular aspect of what I have otherwise found to be a very interesting and useful thread. (Again, thank you, Nathan.) However, I find myself no longer able to remain silent in view of some of the narrow-minded, unnecessarily offensive and obviously hurtful comments which have tainted an otherwise reasonable thread.

Thanks for the kind words of support. The first time I encountered the, "you're not a Scot, so why participate in Scottish culture" argument on this forum I was angry, incensed and hurt. I'm over that. Now, I view comments like that as an opportunity to expose someone to the culture of Cape Breton, New Scotland and to the unique history of Canadian Scots in general. This is perhaps something with which they are not familiar. If - after I explain that I come from an island steeped in many Gaelic traditions, the kilt being just one of them, and a country with decorated Highland Regiments from coast to coast - a person continues with such tropes, I view it as wilful ignorance and shrug my shoulders. You can't teach someone who doesn't wish to learn.

I know my culture is authentic and my inheritance is legitimate. I know I am no impostor but, rather, that I am a tradition bearer. There are many people with deep pockets who, over the years, have bought land in the Highlands and play at being Gaels. They wear our finery and embrace the pageantry of my culture while rejecting its substance and practices as uncivilized, unsophisticated and backwards.

I was trying to determine whether there was an obvious class divide demonstrated by the attire choices of Scots in Scotland, not engage in a re-tread of the tired old "who is a Scot?" malarky.

Like Singlemalt, and a whole host of other members, "I know damn well who and what I am and I don't require any body else's permission to be me."

Beannachd Leibh!

Who and what I am. All Canadians:











Some photos from home:

[Machaggisnz]

Interestingly i did one of those silly facebook quizzes the other night which assess your grammar and use of english to tell whereabouts you live. the Scots influence is very strong in my part of New Zealand and must be strongly so in my family. Most of my friends recievedthe top three options for where they learned english being New Zealand, Australia, Scotland
Whereas I got Scotland, Ireland, Australia despite being a 4th generation Kiwi. Our family has always taken pride in our roots and our inherited culture and fought to keep it alive.
To get back to the original post I dont see the full face being passe or unPC here as a rule though I think some species would raise hackles in a few quarters. The anti fur brigade has a bit of a hard time here as all our land mammals are introduced and considered pests. The best thing you can do from a conservation standpoint here is to kill any wild mammal on sight especially rabbits, ferrets, stoats and wild cats. Our possum fur industry may be what saves a lot of our native bird species from extinction, not that I'd be keen on a possum head sporran. (not to be confused with the American Opossum)

[Singlemalt]

Interestingly i did one of those silly facebook quizzes the other night which assess your grammar and use of english to tell whereabouts you live. the Scots influence is very strong in my part of New Zealand and must be strongly so in my family. Most of my friends recievedthe top three options for where they learned english being New Zealand, Australia, Scotland
Whereas I got Scotland, Ireland, Australia despite being a 4th generation Kiwi. Our family has always taken pride in our roots and our inherited culture and fought to keep it alive.
To get back to the original post I dont see the full face being passe or unPC here as a rule though I think some species would raise hackles in a few quarters. The anti fur brigade has a bit of a hard time here as all our land mammals are introduced and considered pests. The best thing you can do from a conservation standpoint here is to kill any wild mammal on sight especially rabbits, ferrets, stoats and wild cats. Our possum fur industry may be what saves a lot of our native bird species from extinction, not that I'd be keen on a possum head sporran. (not to be confused with the American Opossum)

I think an American Possum full mask sporran would display a lot of character. I am afraid more than I could muster but i am willing to bet someone has one!

[Singlemalt]

Nathan, thank you for the John Allen Cameron tribute. I have not seen it before but I grew up with his music and saw him live several times in the '70's. He was a great entertainer and ambassador for Cape Breton and Gaelic culture at a time most were ignoring it as "old fashioned".

[TheOfficialBren]

Second thoughts after having re-read my post. Bowing out.