Full mask sporrans revisited...

[Father Bill]

"Binned" I like that! Sometimes our typos are better than what we obviously intended. Thanks for the unintentional smile.

[Manxstralian]

Cameron,

Nice try to re-rail the thread, but you went off on a tangent to de-rail it again.

I'm not talented enough (and biased strongly in the FOR full mask sporran camp (in case you hadn't noticed! )) to re-rail this thread again, I just popped in to say that I find it difficult to understand when someone says that they don't "come from" where they were born and bred. I could understand someone being born elsewhere (there could be loads of reasons why) if his birth was correctly registered and he was taken home to be raised in his ancestral homeland, but "born and bred" somewhere and not "coming from" there is beyond my comprehension. Sorry.

I guess what I was trying to say is "not a native", in the sense that my ancestors came here in the last hundred years, whereas while I was in Scotland I met people who had been on the same land for ten or more generations.
The other day I went to look for the grave of my G-G-Granfather (the original Brew who migrated from the Isle of Man), but had no luck, so I can visit the graves of my grandparents, and my great grandparents, but my connection stops there. If I go to the Isle of Man, or Ireland, or Scotland I can find graves of my ancestors which date back far further.
My genetic legacy is from another land, and my contention is that this is the feeling which gives rise to the passion of the diaspora for their "ancestral homelands". I guess it all just depends on whether you are of the opinion that your genetics are tied to the lands that they originated, or if wherever you are born or live is "it". I think quite a few people share my view, hence these hyphenated terms we so often see (African-American, Irish-American, Anglo-Australian etc).

Hopefully that makes it a little clearer...

Cheers,

Cameron

[Calgacus]

"Binned" I like that! Sometimes our typos are better than what we obviously intended. Thanks for the unintentional smile.

It may not have been a Typo, Father Bill. We often use the term to'bin' something, meaning to consign it to the waste bin (garbage). A bit like having something 'canned'.

[Father Bill]

It may not have been a Typo, Father Bill. We often use the term to'bin' something, meaning to consign it to the waste bin (garbage). A bit like having something 'canned'.

Aha! I knew I came here to learn stuff! Thanks!

[CMcG]

Somewhere in the mire of the last couple pages, someone mentioned the word old-fashioned in regards to full-mask sporrans. That struck a chord with me, coupled with the idea of inheritance as it relates to tradition.

For a variety of reasons, full-mask sporrans are not as common as they once were, which has come to the point that a reputable vendor of Highland attire has declared them kaput and stopped selling them. We do, however, still see them worn and there are other sellers/makers providing them for sale.

In as much as tradition involves passing things down from generation to generation, there is a potential for mixed messages when someone wears a full-mask. If one's sporran has been in their family for a generation or two, then it looks more traditional and shows the signs of use or age. If one's sporran is brand new, it can look old-fashioned because according to Kinloch Anderson "This is no longer acceptable as Highland Dress accessory." This is complicated by possibilities like someone whose family has a long history of full-mask sporrans going out and buying a new one, or a kiltie with no such family history buying a used one on eBay

The way a full-mask is perceived could be influenced by variety of factors like geographic location, context, age of the wearer, the rest of their kit, etc. The worst case scenario—for either inherited or purchased full-masks—is probably what KA is trying to discourage: trying too hard to be traditional and ending up looking retro, old-fashioned, or like a wannabe. I'm guessing class plays into this because a few generations ago the majority of people who would have been wearing THCD were monied and/or titled, so wearing an accessory from that time could be perceived as putting on airs

All this is, of course, completely moot if you just like them and don't care what others will think about it To my eye a nice full-mask can look really sharp with a well turned out THCD outfit, especially in situations where more pomp and circumstance is required. I'm too mired in social concerns, however, to buy one for myself. Not to mention the fact that my lass forbids it!

For me, it's kind of like my silver-plated cantle, horsehair sporran. I inherited it from my dad and it was my only formal sporran for quite a while. Some people probably saw it and—without knowing me or the sporran's provenance—passed all kinds of judgments, but people who bothered to talk to me about it were usually charmed with the story. I still love that sporran and still wear it, but I don't think I would go out and buy a new one because they have lost ground in the slowly shifting tide of tradition.

[BCAC]

It may not have been a Typo, Father Bill. We often use the term to'bin' something, meaning to consign it to the waste bin (garbage). A bit like having something 'canned'.

Aha! I knew I came here to learn stuff! Thanks!

Father Bill, it wasn't a typo. I say it all the time. I wasn't thinking of typing banned or anything similar. Binned means, literally, thrown in the bin and bin is short for dustbin. It must be a british colloquialism though because in your country you talk about trash cans, don't you?

[BCAC]

Somewhere in the mire of the last couple pages, someone mentioned the word old-fashioned in regards to full-mask sporrans. That struck a chord with me, coupled with the idea of inheritance as it relates to tradition.

The way a full-mask is perceived could be influenced by variety of factors like geographic location, context, age of the wearer, the rest of their kit, etc. The worst case scenario—for either inherited or purchased full-masks—is probably what KA is trying to discourage: trying too hard to be traditional and ending up looking retro, old-fashioned, or like a wannabe. I'm guessing class plays into this because a few generations ago the majority of people who would have been wearing THCD were monied and/or titled, so wearing an accessory from that time could be perceived as putting on airs

All this is, of course, completely moot if you just like them and don't care what others will think about it To my eye a nice full-mask can look really sharp with a well turned out THCD outfit, especially in situations where more pomp and circumstance is required. I'm too mired in social concerns, however, to buy one for myself. Not to mention the fact that my lass forbids it!

For me, it's kind of like my silver-plated cantle, horsehair sporran. I inherited it from my dad and it was my only formal sporran for quite a while. Some people probably saw it and—without knowing me or the sporran's provenance—passed all kinds of judgments, but people who bothered to talk to me about it were usually charmed with the story. I still love that sporran and still wear it, but I don't think I would go out and buy a new one because they have lost ground in the slowly shifting tide of tradition.
Quote cropped to save space

A few comments, if I may, Colin.

Firstly, you're probably right.

Secondly, If anyone thinks that I'm a poser for wearing my brand new full mask sporran then they have the right to think as they wish.

Thirdly (and lastly), Who gave KA the right to say what is acceptable and what is no longer acceptable as Highland Dress Accessories? They're only tailors after all said and done. I think that they're speaking out of turn. Maybe they lost a contract that they had with a full mask sporran maker? Maybe, as I think Jock Scot said "they're too far removed from the land", and someone else (who is close to this subject but not an XMarker) said "They're probably southern urban Scots".

[Father Bill]

Father Bill, it wasn't a typo. I say it all the time. I wasn't thinking of typing banned or anything similar. Binned means, literally, thrown in the bin and bin is short for dustbin. It must be a british colloquialism though because in your country you talk about trash cans, don't you?

Actually, "garbage cans" is even more common. Thanks for the brief lesson; I love to learn this stuff, but I should have known what a dustbin is!

Cheers!

[CMcG]

A few comments, if I may, Colin.

Firstly, you're probably right.

Secondly, If anyone thinks that I'm a poser for wearing my brand new full mask sporran then they have the right to think as they wish.

Thirdly (and lastly), Who gave KA the right to say what is acceptable and what is no longer acceotable as Highland Dress Accessories? They're only tailors after all said and done. I think that they're speaking out of turn. Maybe they lost a contract that they had with a full mask sporran maker? Maybe, as I think Jock Scot said, they're too far removed from the land, and someone else (who is close to this subject but not an XMarker) said "They're probably southern urban Scots".

Comments are always welcome

As for KA's authority, I believe they draw on their Royal Warrants. That fact gathers THCD back to the importance of George IV's famous visit to Scotland in 1822 (orchestrated by Sir Walter Scott), which re-positioned the kilt as a national symbol, but also appropriated it for the upper class. From the end of the Highland Dress Proscription Act until fairly recently, THCD was not an affordable option for the common man and many of the traditions we participate in are thoroughly implicated in legacies of class-ism.

http://www.kinlochanderson.com/about...royal-warrants

That is, however, just one perspective and holds no enforceability. One of the most interesting things about the kilt is that it is polysemic and can be different things to different people: national dress, cultural attire, fashion statement, uniform, everyday clothing, re-inactment, etc. As we learn about the various opinions on it, we can choose to incorporate them into our own view or not. As a result, the kilt is often a hybrid, contested symbol, hence why we have so much to talk about

[rondo]

What you said and what you mean come across as two entirely different things. It would probably be for the best if we agree to disagree, lest we get this interesting thread binned.

Agreed, it may be two versions of one language that is the glitch here, American English has its own nuance and regional variations. Also it can be difficult to convey tone in the written word. Therefore, I formally agree to disagree with you, let the thread continue.
Rondo