multiple tartans

[creagdhubh]

Kyle, I think that you might find that in that photo The Duke is in fact wearing "White tie" attire (as are all the other people pictured). This is one time where the mix of tartans does not seem "out of place" or "too much" or even "wrong".

Correct. That's what I meant to say, as it is so obviously clear that it is a white tie affair. I know better!

[rondo]

Thanks, Nathan,
That is the photo I was searching for last night but could not locate. Other than a few Victorian paintings this is the only image I know of showing this practice. Have any of you ever toyed with this? Those of you with say a regimental affiliation and a clan affiliation, how did it work out?
Rondo

[Jock Scot]

Do you know rondo, I must have seen that picture dozens of times and I did not notice the Dukes waistcoat! Well done.

In Scotland those retired gentlemen with a connection to a Scottish Regiment wear their Clan tartan kilt and Regimental tie(any Unit or Regiment that they had served in). For dress occassions the Clan tartan kilt suffices. Of course should the occassion warrant the wearing of decorations then the attachment to the military becomes pretty obvious. Its the way we do it, not with rules, just with conventions that work.

I had a very dear friend, with I might add impeccable Highland breeding, who has passed away now, who was not one to be over bothered with rules, or even conventions, who wore his Clan tartan kilt, a waistcoat with half a district tartan, the other half a Stewart universal tartan and to cap it all a magnificent bespoke(Meyer & Mortimer) Seaforth tartan jacket cut on the bias to a very, VERY formal do. To prove a point, to someone ---------he had a habbit of making his point loud and clear! He had served in the Seaforths and was "entitled" to wear every tartan. I have to say that the outfit did not work, but every now and then over the next few years it was let out to play. Even my friend had to admit that another point had been made too! I am glad to say in the end the multi-tartan outfit was retired, although I was very sad to see the Seaforth Jacket retire.

What I am trying to say is this. Just because you can do something does not mean that you should. Yes, on occassion the bounderies can be pushed-------with care! Just as the Duke very ably and successfully demonstrates.

[OC Richard]

I love the uniform of the Isle of Skye Pipe Band, where their kilts and plaids are two variants of the same tartan



One of the tartans was lifted off this old portrait. Note that back then tartans were freely mixed, with jacket, waistcoat, kilt, and hose of four different patterns, and five different patterns being worn by the two MacDonald Children. The idea then was to have the basic colours compliment each other, not match, each bit of tartan coming off the loom being unique.



This free mixing is still common in the Army, in so many ways the last bastion of old traditions; note how many different tartans the pipers in The Highlanders wear (one would think that a book about The Queens Own Highlanders would be adorned with a photo of a member of that regiment, but alas)



Now here's the Pipe Major of The Queens Own Highlanders back in the day. There's a tartan here not to be seen with the piper above. A good eye might spot it, and somebody who knows their regimental history might know why they wear it.

[Nathan]

Here's David Robb as Charles Macdonald on Monarch of the Glen Series 5 Episode 9 wearing a Black Watch waistcoat and Clanranald modern trews.



If you look at Black Watch like a universal or Regimental tartan (as I do), this is no problem. If you look at it like the Campbell tartan, this mix is an abomination as the MacDonald and Campbell rivalry is Scotland's most famous.

I should note that many people - the Captain and Chief of Clanranald for example - wear multiple MacDonald tartans at the same time. His kilt is in the rarely seen Clanranald 1914 his plaid is Clan Donald modern, his waistcoat is Clanranald modern and his trews are Clanranald ancient. Wearing multiple tartans from the same clan is far less controversial than mixing clans.

[Jock Scot]

I think that we need to remember that there are subtle and not so subtle reasons why the military and civilian pipe bands mix tartans. However, we are I think, talking about civilian "conventions" here.

As to Nathan's point, he is perfectly correct that the wearing of different Clan tartans WITHIN the same Clan is sometimes done. Whether the mixture of assorted same Clan tartans pleases the eye-----which seems to be a very important aspect to some modern eyes outwith the UK-------or not, is another matter entirely!

I don't know anything about the character of " Charles MacDonald" from the "Monarch of the Glen" series, but he looks like a cad and a bounder to me! Yes, definitely a bad egg I would say!!! I suppose he may have served in the Black Watch? So I suppose he might wear that tartan "reasonably" with his Clan tartan. But, if my impression(from a picture????!!!!) is right, then I suspect he may well be trying to cause upset between Clans?

[creagdhubh]

Here's David Robb as Charles Macdonald on Monarch of the Glen Series 5 Episode 9 wearing a Black Watch waistcoat and Clanranald modern trews.



If you look at Black Watch like a universal or Regimental tartan (as I do), this is no problem. If you look at it like the Campbell tartan, this mix is an abomination as the MacDonald and Campbell rivalry is Scotland's most famous.

I should note that many people - the Captain and Chief of Clanranald for example - wear multiple MacDonald tartans at the same time. His kilt is in the rarely seen Clanranald 1914 his plaid is Clan Donald modern, his waistcoat is Clanranald modern and his trews are Clanranald ancient. Wearing multiple tartans from the same clan is far less controversial than mixing clans.

I love that episode and the way Robb's character dresses! He's portrayed as a bit of an arrogant traditionalist, yet comes around in the end.

[creagdhubh]

But, if my impression(from a picture????!!!!) is right, then I suspect he may well be trying to cause upset between Clans?

He sure did upset the MacLeish's!

[creagdhubh]

How about this one of my good mate and fellow Macpherson cousin, Bruce Macpherson of Edinburgh. Bruce's multi-tartan waistcoat, which contains a sampling of every Macpherson sett, is actually bit of a gag and not to be taken too seriously. As you can certainly discern from the photo, he really only wears it for our lengthy ceilidhs at the annual Clan Macpherson Gathering and Rally in Badenoch. All in good fun!

[rondo]

Thanks for the input. I think my curiosity has been satisfied. A very interesting discussion.
Rondo