Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[Jock Scot]

If I had seen an impeccably dressed visitor dressed in the kilt then I would firstly enjoy the sight, then I would wonder what the event was that he was going to and if I can't fathom out any reason I think, "why? Why, oh why?" and then I think, oh well its a tourist and they are expected to get it wrong, but just humour them as they are doing no harm.

OK you read my wee story. Did you not read the eyebrow raising bit? Behind those eyebrows lies a brain and that brain is thinking something along the lines of me, although as they are not members of this website and dont understand at all where you chaps are coming from, then those thoughts could be, I am afraid to say, rather less complementary. I am sorry, but you did ask.

[macwilkin]

Not sure whether Texas or Iowa would be worse - I suspect it would be a tie!

I've worn a kilt a number of times in Iowa -- Cedar Falls and Wright County (Clarion & Dows, where my family is from) -- and I never had any problems with it. ;-)

Kilttrip, you mentioned you're south of Mason City -- whereabouts? My fiancée and I were just through Mason City on our way back to her hometown in MN, just west of the Cities.

T.

[CeilidhDoc]

I appreciate the honesty! No need to ever censor your replies for fear of offending me. If I asked the question I want the truth in reply. Resonable gentleman have been known to disagree with one another from time to time , but nothing a wee dram won't take care of here.

In my case, the "Why?" would often be answered with a nod of respect to my ancestors, pride in my heritage, preference for the comfort of the garment over pants/trousers, and in all honesty a vague attempt to reclaim a part of my family's cultural lineage lost many generations ago as a part of the Scottish diaspora. I would suspect that for many of Scottish heritage living outside Scotland who choose to wear the kilt, something similar draws them to wear it as well.

It is interesting to me though that if you could not figure the event a tourist in a kilt was off to then that computes to getting it wrong. My approach lately has been to try and incorporate the kilt more and more frequently into my wardrobe specifically when I don't have an event to go to, haha. I suppose I will be wrong more and more often then, which would follow the general pattern of ageing on some levels, haha... although I suspect the latter perception really just comes from the wisdom to know when I am wrong with increasing accuracy as time goes by.

Slàinte!

[Lodrorigdzin]

If I had seen an impeccably dressed visitor dressed in the kilt then I would firstly enjoy the sight, then I would wonder what the event was that he was going to and if I can't fathom out any reason I think, "why? Why, oh why?" and then I think, oh well its a tourist and they are expected to get it wrong, but just humour them as they are doing no harm.

OK you read my wee story. Did you not read the eyebrow raising bit? Behind those eyebrows lies a brain and that brain is thinking something along the lines of me, although as they are not members of this website and dont understand at all where you chaps are coming from, then those thoughts could be, I am afraid to say, rather less complementary. I am sorry, but you did ask.

The wrongness presumably being wearing a kilt without having an "event" to justify the wearing of it? In Scotland? Just to clarify what you're arguing, mind, I'm not judging any of it.

Is that because kilts, still, are "ethnically scottish, so to speak?

I guess it's the same as tourists who come to Amsterdam/The Netherlands and attempt to fit in by riding bikes and saying Dank u wel and tot ziens in shops. Of course we don't think they're dutch, but it would be harsh to say they're "getting it wrong".

Or is it because wearing a kilt in Scotland could be construed as "trying to be scottish just like us"?

[Jock Scot]

The wrongness presumably being wearing a kilt without having an "event" to justify the wearing of it? In Scotland? Just to clarify what you're arguing, mind, I'm not judging any of it.

Is that because kilts, still, are "ethnically scottish, so to speak?

I guess it's the same as tourists who come to Amsterdam/The Netherlands and attempt to fit in by riding bikes and saying Dank u wel and tot ziens in shops. Of course we don't think they're dutch, but it would be harsh to say they're "getting it wrong".

Or is it because wearing a kilt in Scotland could be construed as "trying to be scottish just like us"?

I was just trying to answer a tricky question as diplomatically as I am able so there is no argument.

Yes I think there are elements of all of those things that you mention that come into our thoughts, perhaps there may be more that others may have too?

However, I think that your last sentence covers the main of it and however much you chaps from outwith Scotland may protest to the contrary, you are not Scots----at least in Scots eyes and all the Clan historical knowhow, kilt attire knowledge, direct historical roots, Gaelic skills, wishful thinking quotations and general social manoeuvering from your own country will not convince most of us otherwise. I am sorry, but that is how it is.

I think if I went to Texas and got togged up in Texas kit(sorry I don't know the propper name for it!) but let me try "cow poke attire"? I would stand out like a sore thumb?OK I don't have the"roots aspect" with this example. What would the locals think? How about, "Oh b****y H***!!! who does he think he is? And " What the H*** is he doing?" And then, I hope that they thought I was harmless enough to let me get on with kidding myself!!! Except I hope that I would not make too much of an exhibition of myself. Does that make any sense?

Nevertheless that does not stop any of you from being nice chaps!

[CeilidhDoc]

However, I think that your last sentence covers the main of it and however much you chaps from outwith Scotland may protest to the contrary, you are not Scots----at least in Scots eyes and all the Clan historical knowhow, kilt attire knowledge, direct historical roots, Gaelic skills, wishful thinking quotations and general social manoeuvering from your own country will not convince most of us otherwise. I am sorry, but that is how it is.

My experience when I was at St. Andrews was exactly this. One of the most heated pub arguments I ever got into with my Scottish friends was over the concept of one not born in Scotland claiming to be Scottish.

There is a great difference in this perception between Scotland and the USA for sure. I think that from my experience, the USA is a relatively young nation when compared to other countries around the world. As a result, many people here have stong identification with the countries of origin of their ancestors, which is something that is not easy to explain to someone whose family was never ejected from its homeland for one reason or another. It is very common for Americans to feel they are simultaneously American AND whatever their genetic lineage is in my experience. Problem is, that outside the USA, this is not perceived as valid. In Scotland not a single friend of mine felt this was a valid concept. It was utterly foreign to them, as was I.

This is the hardest thing to overcome in wearing the kilt in Scotland without the genuine accent to go with it (in my experience) because no matter how sincere one is you will never be perceived as a legitimate Scot, and some will perceive the foreigners in kilts as an offense because it is sort of hijacking something that was meant to be uniquely theirs, from their perspective. At least this was how they explained it to me. I am sure opinions around Scotland may vary somewhat. But the circumstances of the highland clearances or other reasons Scots may have scattered abroad unfortunately (from my perspective) seem to have no bearing on this perception from where they stand, which I found very surprising as I would have anticipated more sympathy for the concept.

This of course does not change my level of respect for my ancestors slaughtered in Dunoon, for instance. And it is with that in mind that I just let people think what they want and press on with my little kilted homage to those who came before me, while doing my best to do it properly so that if I am going to do it I am going to do it as traditionally as I can to avoid making this worse... like the guy on the ferry. But to me that is the single hardest thing to overcome wearing the kilt in Scotland. The next time I go that won't deter me, but I do have to say that when I was living there briefly for Uni that was the greatest clash of cultures that I encountered. This does nothing to make me dislike folks in Scotland by any means, but it is a concept that is worthy of keeping in mind if one is not born and raised there and is going to wear the kilt while travelling.

At some point I will have to post a true story about a time I nearly got my @$$ kicked while kilted in St. Andrews as it has some humor but also relates to this discussion, but doing the story justice would take some thinking and background to set the scene. When I have time I will.

Slàinte

[Lodrorigdzin]

Trying not to nest too many quotes here.

For me a parallel is wearing dhotis. In Europe I do that as a devotee of Krishna, also to be approachable as such, because you really stand out. As such, in our tradition as it formed in the west, "vaishnava attire" is spiritual dress and signifies "belonging to the tradition that our founder established in the west".

And then I went to India, in dhoti. LOL. There, I am a spiritual western tourist, but I am one among many many dhoti wearers.

Last week, I passed through Utrecht station on my way home, when I noticed an elderly gentleman, dressed in a kain and badjoe and with the appropriate "topi" (hat), the attire of an elderly Indonesian gentleman, except he was clearly ethnically dutch. He looked like someone who was traveling to an iftar, to break fast after a long ramadan day. And later I saw him on the platform. Everything was exactly right about his dress, he clearly knew how to put it together, and his kain had wonderful and appropriate batik patterns, that identified him as a muslim scholar. I never thought he played dress up, as he clearly looked like he knew what he was doing, but I would very much have liked to hear his story, but my train was leaving.

[Jock Scot]

Ceilidhdoc.

I understand what you say, but why is it those from the New World think that they are the only ones with roots and only their ancestors have been dispossessed from somewhere? We ALL have roots! Many of our, Scots, roots come from all over Europe and beyond and many of those were booted out from their ancestral homes too. Several of mine were over the centuries. France(twice) and Russia(last centuary) to name two! Yes I am aware of my roots, many Scots are too, although there are probably just as many in Scotland---as others are, from the rest of the World----have no idea and perhaps, have no interest in finding out. I don't visit France dressed in a wasp shirt, berret upon my head, riding a bicycle and with a string of onions around my shoulders and yes I can speak French. I really don't think my French family and friends would be too impressed. Do you?

[Jordan]

It's interesting reading @Jock Scot's posts, I agree about there being some situations where a kilt wouldn't be appropriate and the examples given are good ones my work also isn't keen on the kilt and there are some scenarios when I have to be in uniform.

However a lot like @CeilidhDoc I have pretty much replaced all of my suits with a kilted equivalent so when I choose to look smart or wear a suit that's what I have.


I know I'm an abrogation to the statistics and in no way even close to representing the norm.

[Nathan]

Ceilidhdoc.

I understand what you say, but why is it those from the New World think that they are the only ones with roots and only their ancestors have been dispossessed from somewhere? We ALL have roots! Many of our, Scots, roots come from all over Europe and beyond and many of those were booted out from their ancestral homes too. Several of mine were over the centuries. France(twice) and Russia(last centuary) to name two! Yes I am aware of my roots, many Scots are too, although there are probably just as many in Scotland---as others are, from the rest of the World----have no idea and perhaps, have no interest in finding out. I don't visit France dressed in a wasp shirt, berret upon my head, riding a bicycle and with a string of onions around my shoulders and yes I can speak French. I really don't think my French family and friends would be too impressed. Do you?

I can't speak for everyone but I think you're drawing a false parallel. I don't think the beret and wasp shirt has been incorporated into Scots culture to the degree that the kilt has, for example, been incorporated into Canadian culture. I also don't think anyone actually wears that stereotypical French garb any more with the exception of the odd mime.

I supposed could choose to trace my roots back to the ancient Indo-Europeans if I so desired but that has nothing to do with my culture. My culture is that of the Cape Bretoner/Nova Scotian/Scottish-Canadian/whatever...

The kilt was and is a part of my culture as are the other Celtic arts I've detailed so often on this forum in the past. These Highlanders collectively and organically decided to pass customs down through the generations. If the Russians that arrived in Scotland didn't choose to do that and chose instead to assimilate, that's a different story. But French Canadians like pastry, rabbit, wine and cheese and Scottish Canadians like fiddles, kilts and bagpipes.

My people decided to protect their Highland way of life and I am simply a product of their choices. I can't speak for anyone else in the New World but I don't presume to know their family heritage. I do know that if one receives their patrimony and the associated values from one's parent, it doesn't matter where that takes place, it is the parents' to give and the child's to receive.

You could stand on the corner of Dundas in Spadina in Toronto and tell everyone passing in China Town that they're not Chinese, but they would laugh at you.

Since this is how I and many of my fellows have been raised and therefore choose to live, I wonder whether I should pretend otherwise if I visit the auld sod or if I should be the Cape Bretoner I am and follow my gut instinct as I would here.