Two Telling comments? The Answer Perhaps?

[Jock Scot]

I would love to see that thread Jock!

And if we don't see it, teach us!

I know some students are unteachable, but this forum has lots of open eyes to read your comments and they are very much appreciated!



Slàinte!

Sigh, Sigh and thrice Sigh!

Several, of which I am but one, here have tried to advise and mostly they have been shouted down by the international(non Scots majority) and no longer venture/contribute to this website and frankly I don't blame them. I too have seriously considered taking a back seat on more than one occasion, but I am still here, although I am not at all sure why, sometimes. For how much longer though, will depend on matters beyond my control!

[Lodrorigdzin]

I do remember that thread it was a photo of a piper if I'm remembering correctly, and from what I remember there were some of us on this side of the pond who saw the same faults that you did, I am thinking of fellows like @creagdhubh specifically.
I do think the difference comes from educating yourself as to what is proper and how it would be worn in Scotland and emulating that instead of wearing what you want because you want to.

Right, so it's also getting away from the piper/uniform style of wearing kilts.

In my case: I's like very much to avoid the squire or vaguely military look that's so predominant in "traditional casual highland dress". Already that is too much "dressing up" to my taste. On the other hand: what ís still appropriate to wear with a kilt? It's rather a fine line.

[CeilidhDoc]

JS--I am always interested. Sometimes we learn the most from the things we would rather not hear. Or read.

True friends tell one another when they have food stuck in their teeth or snot hanging from their nostril. Personally, if I was in Scotland "doing it wrong" I would appreciate pointers and corrections! But of course, as an American in Scotland it may be near impossible to give the impression that I am doing it right if it is not for a specific event. I will go down trying my very best to do so however, and it is a process of constant revision.

If I ran into you on the ferry and got it right I think I would consider it to be the greatest possible compliment.

Slàinte!

[Nathan]

Thanks for the interesting thread, Jock!

The "looking like a tourist" angle is certainly one worth exploring and I'm sure that there are those that feel that way.

I am personally always surprised when people ask, why the Scots don't wear the kilt as every day clothing more often. Why would they?

I don't wear my kilt daily although I wear it more frequently than most. Most Scottish Cape Bretoners would never consider wearing a kilt "just because". Most don't own one and to do so would be to demand attention and that, I'm afraid, is not in the character of the majority of folks.

I'll over state this to make my point, just in case some native-born Scots have encountered a similar perspective. The working-class Highland people of Cape Breton are a somewhat modest bunch. They don't have a lot of time for show offs, dandies or braggarts. They are happy to see someone with a talent share it, but not so impressed by someone who talks about their proficiency are shows off their wealth conspicuously if they are lucky enough to have some etc...

The overstated bit is that the kilt and one's clan tartan is viewed as an *almost* sacred thing by a lot of these folks. Having one made would be a monumental event in someone's life and wearing it wouldn't be taken lightly. It certainly isn't viewed as just another set of clothes. There is no reason these coal miners, farmers, fishermen, teachers, former steel workers etc... would feel the need to "dress up" in Highland attire just to go about their lives.

For an occasion, that's another story. A Masonic lodge event for members of the Scottish rite, a day at the Highland Games, perhaps a wedding, prom or New Year's dance would all be times when dressing up in one's finest would be considered appropriate and if the kilt is your finest, why not! A ceilidh is a much less formal affair and people would be wearing their regular casual street clothes.

The kilt wouldn't be most people's first choice for fixing fishing gear, bringing in hay, shoveling their driveway or cleaning out their shed. They wouldn't strap it on to go to the local tavern or to buy their groceries.

In fact, the only daily kilt wearer that I've encountered in Cape Breton is an American gent who purchased land along the Cabot Trail and had a shop selling souvenirs and militaria. Perhaps it's still open, I'm not sure. Even the kilted regiment only wears the kilt with parade dress and wears combats (fatigues for the Americans, number 8 dress for the Brits). The kilt is comparatively uncomfortable and impractical.

In parts of Cape Breton you'll see Gaelic street signs, Celtic crosses in the cemeteries, memorial cairns, and tartan and thistles on a good many signs and logos but kilts wouldn't be viewed as practical or in any respect "normal". They wouldn't be affordable to many and the wearing of one without an occasion or a reason would be looked upon by most as a desperate cry for attention.

Not sure they'd think you were a tourist, but they'd certainly think you were an odd duck.

So is it possible that a lot of Scots would also view wearing the kilt out and about as showing off or looking for attention?

[Jock Scot]

I do remember that thread it was a photo of a piper if I'm remembering correctly, and from what I remember there were some of us on this side of the pond who saw the same faults that you did, I am thinking of fellows like @creagdhubh specifically.
I do think the difference comes from educating yourself as to what is proper and how it would be worn in Scotland and emulating that instead of wearing what you want because you want to.

I am not sure that you are thinking of the picture that I am Glen, I seem to recall some sort of gathering at Culloden , but perhaps I am wrong?

I think the bigggest handicap and culprit for misleading the new kilt wearer are the internet pictures with no, or misleading information attached to them. They allow the new and enthusiastic kilt wearer's mind to run riot, often with disasterous and expensive consequences.

[Jock Scot]

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So is it possible that a lot of Scots would also view wearing the kilt out and about as showing off or looking for attention?

I think almost exclusively most Scots would consider that most kilted visitors to Scotland were doing exactly that. Unfairly perhaps.

As for Scots wearing the kilt to show off, well no doubt there is an element of that, although generally speaking I think peer pressure takes care of that.

[CeilidhDoc]

JS and Nathan--

I think this is another issue that has significant merit.

When I go out kilted, and even when I first started wearing the kilt, I never had the fear of "looking like a girl in a skirt" that some westerners seem to have to grapple with. The main reason I can end up feeling self-conscious is if I have the impression others think I am wearing it as an attention-grabbing "Look at me!" kind of show, rather than the nod to my ancestors which I intend. My personality really couldn't be more different from the former, and for me the only potential real downside to wearing the kilt is coming off like that to others.

The problem is that there is no real way to advertise without a discussion what your exact intent is, and there is no way to talk to all those around you and let them know, so people will just make up their own minds without your input at all in most cases. I don't know what the solution is to that issue.

Slàinte!

[Couper]

...but all they really did was look very stupid and touristy.

Stupid? Really? I seem to detect an "attitude" not just in the quoted phrase but woven into the fabric of (much of) the above narrative.

Why "stupid?" Because tourists stumble around, get lost, ask too many questions, can't count the local currency correctly, eat differently from the locals or DRESS FUNNY - does that really make them stupid?

Uninformed (most likely) but certainly not stupid. Remember, being uninformed or "ignorant" can be cured with education - but there is no cure for stupidity. I would imagine these "stupid" tourists are actually "smart" enough to have the disposable income needed to visit the countries they deem interesting (even though they may be inhabited by such biased people).

Sorry - I've got more to say - but I'll end my rant now.

[CeilidhDoc]

Couper--

Please do remember that some of us are soliciting honest opinions. Asking for honesty and then geting offended when it is given is unfair to those whom the question was asked. Whether it is nice, or has attitude, really has no bearing on if it is the truth. If people are going to be perceived as "stupid" for doing something, then the NICE thing to do is let them know so they can make an informed decision.

When I visit a foreign nation, I am a guest on their soil. Having sensitivity to perceptions of foreigners so that one can change the mindset of those that might assume one to be "stupid" by presenting an opposing real-world example is an opportunity to change just that perception.

Personally, I appreciate their candor. They could choose to say nothing and let us show up and be the object of ridicule. Instead they have taken the time to try and help us out.

Just a thought. Do with it as you will. All are certainly entitled to their own opinions.

Slàinte

[The Wizard of BC]

As a bit of an interesting insight this last week - we outfitted three wedding parties where Scots had flown over to participate.

When the parties were in the shop I had time to ask the Scots about kilt wearing in Scotland v.s. in Victoria.

In each case, and that is by 8 resident Scots, I was told, very strongly, that White Hose with Ghillie Brogues, Prince Charlie with vest and Dirk Belt, Ruche Tie, and White Rabbit dress sporrans were the preferred manner of dress in Scotland for all events, even a beach wedding as these were.

As I have no White hose in my shop and carry no White Rabbit sporrans two of the Scots had decided to bring their own.

One party was outfitted with White hose that were purchased in Scotland and brought over by one of the guys.

In one party the Scots insisted on Dirk Belts with vests so everyone else had to be outfitted with them too.

And one party who had originally planned their beach wedding to be comfortable with the Groom in a white dress shirt with long tie but no jacket, and the groomsmen to wear off-white Jacobite shirts, changed at the last moment to Prince Charlie Coatees when told by the Scots that it is the only proper way for a wedding.

I'm sorry but these wedding parties ended up looking just like they had stepped out of the ubiquitous Scottish website.

I found it very strange and in direct opposition to what the Scots here tell us. The Scots in these parties said to me that they do not own a kilt and would only hire outfits when needed.

And one of gentlemen in his mid 50's told me that this standard cookie cutter look was how you told a real Scot from a tourist. He said that only a tourist would wear a kilt casually with a street shirt or colored hose. He told me that a colored Tweed Argyle was a dead give-away that the person was a tourist. He also said that anyone who owned their own kilt and wore it for anything other than a wedding or footie game was strange.