Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[CeilidhDoc]

I can only apologise to CeilidhDoc for his experience, and I'm glad that he otherwise enjoyed his time in the town, as indeed I did. Possibly the best four years of my life.

Again, I appreciate the sentiment but there is really no need for an apology. I'm sure many of the offenders are older and wiser and behave differently now. High School age kids are not known for making the best decisions anywhere in the world, and sometimes poor decisions are violent with angry angst-ridden teens. This happens everywhere. So I do hope that nobody on the forum thinks I was going after making Scots feel bad or that my story was meant to be a commentary on Scotland as a whole. It is also not representative of my overall experience. I just wanted to mention it as a word of caution coming up to the election in September because charged political times in any nation can sometimes lead to increased risk. The story was meant as more of a "heads up" for people to, well, use their heads.

And as for enjoying St. Andrews, I enjoyed it quite thoroughly. Raisin Sunday (well, the whole weekend really) was an experience I will never forget. I know that a university town is seldom representative of what living in a country is really like, but I truly enjoyed my time there.

On one particularly wonderful occasion I was even taught how to properly pronounce my own last name. I'm going to date myself here, but back when one actually had to turn in a disposable camera to have film developed and then later go pick up the photos, I had done so and returned to get them. The man asked me my last name, and I pronounced "White" the way an American would (more like "Wite--hard i, minus the h sound). He rummaged through a bin and came back saying he had no photos for me. I explained that I had dropped them off days ago. He then asked me how I spelled my name. When I did so, he burst out laughing. He then said (with a wonderfully thick accent): " You have a fine Scottish name, but you've no idea how to pronounce it. In Scotland, your name is pronounced 'HWHite,' with an emphasis on the h. That's a different bin!"

On another occasion, I ordered a Guiness at a pub, and a Scot at the end of the bar overheard me. He then confirmed, somewhat surprised, that I was both an American, and that I was ordering Guiness rather than Budwiser. When I confirmed this, he paid for my pint, then insisted that he pay for a truly Scottish drink, and ordered me a glass of Laphroaig. This was the first glass of Single Malt Scotch I ever enjoyed and started a love affair with the drink (in moderation, of course) that remains with me to this day. We talked for hours at the pub that day, and I never saw him again.

I thanked both of these Scots profusely. Small experineces like these were more typical of my day to day life while in Scotland and many little things are memories I will cherish to the grave.

Slàinte

[tpa]

I have no Scots accent, I lost that at about the age of 7 when I was educted in England. Does it cause a problem? Not at all, although it sometimes does cause some bemused looks from those that don't know me.

I am surprised at that. Aged 8 I was sent to a very multicultural school, albeit in Scotland, but Scots accents were far from the norm. I also had a Scottish mother who was always saying "talk proper" if ever I lapsed. However, even now, having lived in England almost ½ my life, if I come across a Scots accent, I tend to reply in kind, that is lapse into a mild, I would not say broad, accent. Mind you in Yorkshire I'll take on a Yorkshire accent, and I'm always a little worried that some one will think I'm extracting the michael. No one ever has, so perhaps it is only my perception of a Yorkshire accent and not recognisable to a Yorkshire man.

[tpa]

I'm appalled to learn of CeilidhDoc's experience of St. Andrews. My daughter took her degree at St. Andrews from 2000 to 2004 and I usually wore a kilt when I visited her. Nobody ever questioned my nationality or right to wear a kilt.
Racism can occur anywhere in the world.

I an similarly appalled to hear of CeilidhDoc's experience of St.Andrews, but not altogether surprised. Many years before I was at Dundee University, at that time it was know as Queens College St. Andrews. Dundee was at that time a violent city, "mind the blood" was a frequent call from the bowling alley bouncers as you ascended the stairs; yet in my 3 years at Dundee I cannot recall an attack on a student and Dundee was a very multicultural University. However on one of a very few visits to St. Andrews, I encountered a glassing incident in a pub, which I assumed was a one off. Subsequent reports indicated that I was wrong about the one off scenario, so I am still not sure about St. Andrews. Many years previously my mother was a very happy student there, so perhaps things have changed; but I would certainly say, such behaviour is very atypical of anywhere else in Scotland, Glasgow included, providing you are sensible.

(This post, in similar but not precise wording, was originally posted several days ago, but seems to have been lost in the ether; so apologies to anyone who gets a duplication.)

[CMcG]

This is quite a long and interesting thread with a lot of tangents, which I have read through and enjoyed, although I'm bringing my response back to the spirit of the original post. My modus operandi while traveling is quite simple: "when in Rome (or Scotland), do as the Romans (or Scots) do." There is lots of info in this thread (and others) to help one figure out what to pack, but keep your eyes open to what the people around you are doing and you should be fine.

[CeilidhDoc]

A follow up for you Jock--

For example, you mentioned that you would never have thought to wear the kilt to the Hebrides. I would have thought that would be a fantastic place to wear the kilt, since it is the stronghold of Scottish Gaelic and is rich with traditional highland culture. So that surprised me.

It occurred to me today that there is likely a subliminal reason why I felt this as well. The immortal words of Andy Stewart! :

To wear the kilt is mighty light
it is not wrong, I know it's right.
The islanders would give a fright
if they saw me in the troosers!


I would assume he was referring to the Hebrides. Maybe I'm wrong.

Did he say "highlanders" without the heeland pronunciation he uses elsewhere in the song?

Maybe someone can school me on this. As an American I probably am messing up something here.


Slàinte

[McMurdo]

A follow up for you Jock--




It occurred to me today that there is likely a subliminal reason why I felt this as well. The immortal words of Andy Stewart! :

To wear the kilt is mighty light
it is not wrong, I know it's right.
The islanders would give a fright
if they saw me in the troosers!


I would assume he was referring to the Hebrides. Maybe I'm wrong.

Did he say "highlanders" without the heeland pronunciation he uses elsewhere in the song?

Maybe someone can school me on this. As an American I probably am messing up something here.


Slàinte

http://youtu.be/pDJflQfNUE8
Yes you did get the words a wee bit off


To wear the kilt is my delight
It is not wrong I know it's right
The Highlanders would get a fright
If they saw me in the trousers

[CeilidhDoc]

If all from Scotland are in agreement on that point then I will have to admit my ears must be faulty.

But it does strike me as odd that elsewhere in the song he goes out of his way to pronounce highland ("cannae get the breeks on a heeland man") then would later pronounce it highland in the other way. Is there a convention in Scotland of not saying "heelanders" even though one says "heeland?" If there is no such convention I would advise folks to listen and see if you hear highlanders or islanders for that line. I just can't hear an h anywhere. But of course as I already mentioned, I had to be taught by a Scot how to pronounce the h in my own last name, so I am probably the last person on Earth someone should trust on that issue

Thanks for the input. This may explain why I was surprised to hear Jock's opinion. And all these years I had that line wrong... Sigh.


Slàinte

[Calgacus]

One should be very circumspect about reading any meaning at all into Scottish comedy songs. Even some apparent folk songs are not what they appear. I can't remember the title of the song now, but there's a song which waxes lyrical about the blue mountains of Benbecula, or some such similarly flat island.

I'm hoping some of the historians can chime in here, as it would be interesting to know if there were any differences in the custom of kilt wearing on the islands as opposed to the mainland highlands. The islands had a significant Norse influence which could conceivably have affected the garments worn locally, but Magnus Barefoot was famously named for his adoption of the dress of the native Scottish islanders who he raided. At that time the mode of dress was presumably leine & brat. One of the early travellers to the islands in the mid to late 18th century (I can't remember if it was Martin Martin or Boswell & Johnston) mentioned that kilts were not to be seen on Skye, and they speculated as to whether they had ever been worn there.

Whatever the truth of any of that, I suspect Jock's aversion to wearing a kilt in the Hebrides is possibly more to do with an aversion to looking like a tourist, though I don't want to put words in his mouth and I'm sure he will explain his reasons if he so wishes to do so.

[Jock Scot]

At the time I just thought that the kilt was just not appropriate for what we were about to do. Ferries with steep steps, wind, local knowledge etc.. At the time "the looking like a tourist" aspect had not entered into my thinking.

[CeilidhDoc]

Thanks for the input. I'm afraid I have given you another opportunity to shake your head at Americans doing it wrong. Haha.

I am curious about the Scots convention for pronunciation of highland vs highlanders though.

And the real lyrics to the first line I (incorrectly) quoted are far more satisfying than what I thought was being sung.

Your points are well taken Calgacus. I don't mean to derail the thread with a dissection of adoption of highland dress in the Hebrides but I agree it would make for some interesting discussion.

Slàinte!