Two Telling comments? The Answer Perhaps?

[MacThomas]

So as foreigners to Scotland it seems that we have a responsibility that most scots don't wear it (except for specific reasons) and this upsets me! At the same time some scots maybe proud when properly worn by foreigners at least that is my own experience.

[MacThomas]

So as foreigners to Scotland it seems that we have a responsibility that most scots don't wear it (except for specific reasons) and this upsets me! At the same time some scots maybe proud when properly worn by foreigners at least that is my own experience.

I went to Scotland at least 9 times and plan to get back next year!

[Jock Scot]

So as foreigners to Scotland it seems that we have a responsibility that most scots don't wear it (except for specific reasons) and this upsets me! At the same time some scots maybe proud when properly worn by foreigners at least that is my own experience.

Please excuse me if your style of English gives me the wrong impression here. But no, I am not at all proud if I see a properly worn civilian kilt being worn by a foreigner. I do enjoy seeing the kilt being worn properly by anyone, that is for sure and I get upset if I see a Scot wearing the kilt poorly.

[MacThomas]

Please excuse me if your style of English gives me the wrong impression here. But no, I am not at all proud if I see a properly worn civilian kilt being worn by a foreigner. I do enjoy seeing the kilt being worn properly by anyone, that is for sure and I get upset if I see a Scot wearing the kilt poorly.

No problem Jock and sorry for my English (I'll do my best), I understand your opinion but believe me or not it happens to me several times to be "seriously" invited by scots (not every scot) to wear it and each they seemed to be pleased with the result. So it is not always problematic to foreigners.

[Jock Scot]

No problem Jock and sorry for my English (I'll do my best), I understand your opinion but believe me or not it happens to me several times to be "seriously" invited by scots (not every scot) to wear it and each they seemed to be pleased with the result. So it is not always problematic to foreigners.

Your English is fine! I was just being cautious in case I misunderstood.

[Father Bill]

I think that part of the problem we're experiencing in this discussion is an erroneous and possibly unintended assumption on the part of some, that Scots think as a monolithic whole. That would be as silly as saying that all kilties think the same. This very forum, and in fact this very thread, give ample evidence that such thinking is patently false. Scots are a much more finely nuanced and varied group than that, something for which I respect them as I do any group. So, incidentally, are tourists and other visitors, with or without roots, but since we are usually fewer in number at any given time, it's easier to make broad assumptions about us than it is for the locals to make such assumptions about one-another.

While many Scots will likely think as do Jock and his friend, there are undoubtedly others with other opinions, nuances of thought, different reasoning, different experiences. I value the opinions of my good friend Jock and respect him as an individual, a model, and an observer, but I don't assume for a moment that he or any other Scot can speak for all Scots any more than I or any other Canadian can speak for all Canadians etc.

These are groupings of individuals with many similarities of experience and thought, and many, many fine, delicate, and critically significant differences and shades of meaning in their thought processes, beliefs, and perceptions. That's probably the reason that we're reporting varied experiences, BUT, Jock's perspective is helpful to me and, I would hope, to many.

The bottom line to me is that if you're patently a tourist and dress and/or behave in the ways of foolish, overenthusiastic or giddy outlanders, (no, I did not just say that all outlanders are foolish, overenthusiastic or giddy) if you do not show respect and circumspection, dignity and thoughtfulness, you'll likely be received as such: usually politely, usually patiently, but often with rolled eyes as you walk away. If you do so while sporting something that is symbolic, iconic, and near and dear to the hearts of the "locals," you may actually engender some low-level, silent, seething, and disgusted hostility, albeit mostly silent.

More than that, such behaviour paints a broad stroke against other more sensitive tourists and visitors and does nobody any favour. The "I'll do as I damned well please" attitude of some is hurtful to many others and paints the individual who takes that stand as a boor, an uncaring clod, and an uneducated fool. Yes, you are indeed free to behave that way. But as one who tries hard not to, you make my life more difficult as you create hard feelings and by doing so, it seems to me that you don't care about me or anyone else in the world other than yourself when you do so. As such, you get little respect from me.

Are there "national characteristics?" Undoubtedly so. In fact, it sometimes seems to me that the aforementioned "I'll do as I damned well please" way of thinking is a characteristic of some groups, possibly some nationalities, but it's foolish to suggest that any stereotype is universally true. Different tourists. Different Scots. Different peoples. Different ways.

Here endeth the sermon.

Father Bill+

[Jock Scot]

Father Bill.


You should pour yourself a large dram tonight ! Nicely said.

[Father Bill]

Thanks Jock! I'm thinking Aberlour. I have an Abunadh on my shelf!

[Nathan]

I think that part of the problem we're experiencing in this discussion is an erroneous and possibly unintended assumption on the part of some, that Scots think as a monolithic whole. That would be as silly as saying that all kilties think the same. This very forum, and in fact this very thread, give ample evidence that such thinking is patently false. Scots are a much more finely nuanced and varied group than that, something for which I respect them as I do any group. So, incidentally, are tourists and other visitors, with or without roots, but since we are usually fewer in number at any given time, it's easier to make broad assumptions about us than it is for the locals to make such assumptions about one-another.

While many Scots will likely think as do Jock and his friend, there are undoubtedly others with other opinions, nuances of thought, different reasoning, different experiences. I value the opinions of my good friend Jock and respect him as an individual, a model, and an observer, but I don't assume for a moment that he or any other Scot can speak for all Scots any more than I or any other Canadian can speak for all Canadians etc.

These are groupings of individuals with many similarities of experience and thought, and many, many fine, delicate, and critically significant differences and shades of meaning in their thought processes, beliefs, and perceptions. That's probably the reason that we're reporting varied experiences, BUT, Jock's perspective is helpful to me and, I would hope, to many.

The bottom line to me is that if you're patently a tourist and dress and/or behave in the ways of foolish, overenthusiastic or giddy outlanders, (no, I did not just say that all outlanders are foolish, overenthusiastic or giddy) if you do not show respect and circumspection, dignity and thoughtfulness, you'll likely be received as such: usually politely, usually patiently, but often with rolled eyes as you walk away. If you do so while sporting something that is symbolic, iconic, and near and dear to the hearts of the "locals," you may actually engender some low-level, silent, seething, and disgusted hostility, albeit mostly silent.

More than that, such behaviour paints a broad stroke against other more sensitive tourists and visitors and does nobody any favour. The "I'll do as I damned well please" attitude of some is hurtful to many others and paints the individual who takes that stand as a boor, an uncaring clod, and an uneducated fool. Yes, you are indeed free to behave that way. But as one who tries hard not to, you make my life more difficult as you create hard feelings and by doing so, it seems to me that you don't care about me or anyone else in the world other than yourself when you do so. As such, you get little respect from me.

Are there "national characteristics?" Undoubtedly so. In fact, it sometimes seems to me that the aforementioned "I'll do as I damned well please" way of thinking is a characteristic of some groups, possibly some nationalities, but it's foolish to suggest that any stereotype is universally true. Different tourists. Different Scots. Different peoples. Different ways.

Here endeth the sermon.

Father Bill+

What a wise and nuanced post, Father Bill. There is little argument when someone speaks truth so eloquently. Thank you.

[creagdhubh]

Well said, Father Bill!