I would like to submit a proposal to the membership

[kiltedrennie]

I think it's a combination of those things. I think there's plenty of discussion to be had around the when/where/why/how of wearing a kilt that way, but it's definitely not the same. Another thing I've noticed, both from my customers and other MUG wearers I've talked with, is that they don't feel the need to nerd out over their kilts because it's just clothing to them. If we want more discussion and photos and sense of community within our oddball little niche, it's on us to make it happen. Post more interesting threads, I think someone said earlier. 100% true.

I think this just about sums it up for me. I do enjoy reading the traditionalists posts up to a point, but rarely comment as the discussion usually is beyond my experience. I also enjoy the rare thread discussing my other interests that intersect with kilts (knitting, sewing, and other "making" activities).

It just occurred to me that they way I check up on the latest conversations tends to place me into the traditionalists threads given the number of posts where I respond to current conversations rather than start a new one. I've been remise in not prompting the non-traditional/post-modern group for suggestions and examples of what, when, where, why, and how they/we get on with it. I'm going to make a determined effort to do so.

*edited*
I would like to add that this has been the most helpful and interesting website dedicated to kilts I've found. I know that if I ask a question it will get a constructive answer. I've learned more here than I could hope to elsewhere. I value every opinion I have received. Thank you all

[Steve Ashton]

What If I were to propose the following –

And please understand, that I am honestly trying to find a way that is equally welcoming to anyone who chooses to wear a kilt.

To that end I have gone through a lot of threads and posts trying to find some common ground.

I’ll get to that common ground in just a moment.
First, however I would like to share something I noticed that is very interesting.

We have had many members comment that they have a problem knowing what section of the forum to post in.

As I was going through threads already posted, in almost every part of X Marks, I began to notice that in almost every case the member posting would fit within one of the following eight genre.


You wear a kilt as part of a uniform - This would cover the Military and Pipe Bands. It would also cover those who wear the kilt as part of their job such as hotel doormen. The hallmark of this genre is that how you wear the kilt and what you wear with it is in some way proscribed.

You wear a kilt as part of a costume - This would cover those members who have an interest in the stage, screen, Ren Faires and Halloween costumes. The hallmark of this genre is that the person knows that they are playing at being a Scot.

You wear a kilt for sporting and other outdoor specific endeavors. - This would cover our members who participate in Highland Games heavy events, hiking, paintball, camping etc. The hallmark of this genre is that you probably have a specific kilt just for that endeavor, be it a kilt of light weight, fast drying fabric for hiking, one with tool pockets for carpentry or an inexpensive kilt that an athlete can get rosin all over.

You are wearing a kilt as part of a vintage outfit – Vintage clothing is defined as garments originating from a previous era. The hallmark of this genre is those who are attempting to emulate the photos and illustrations from the old catalogs. Much like wearing a Fedora or plus 4’s today.

You are wearing a kilt as an outfit for special occasions – You put the kilt on for a wedding or prom. Within this genre are those who may not own a kilt and may have to rent one. This could also include if you are attending a Burn’s dinner, a ceilidh or a Highland Games.
The hallmark of this genre is that if it were not a special occasion you would not have put a kilt on that day.

You are wearing a kilt as a modern day wear or street wear outfit – This is the genre for those who wear the kilt as another piece of clothing. It is usually for those who wear the kilt every day. The hallmark of this genre is that the outfit, other than the kilt, is almost the same as everyone else you would meet on the street. If you talk to someone on the street and ten minutes into the conversation they notice that you have a kilt on this would be your genre.

You are wearing a kilt as a non-conformist outfit - For our members who march to a different drummer. This would cover kilts worn at Burning Man or in the "Revolt against Trouser Tyranny" style. The hallmark of this genre is that you are purposely not trying to look Scottish.

Please notice that I intentionally left out the word 'traditional'. The reason for this goes back to the common denominator I spoke about earlier.
That common denominator is that the vast majority of us on X Marks put on a kilt instead of trousers as a tangible manifestation of our Scottish Heritage.

This is also why I did not use Heritage as one of the genre. If your primary reason for wearing a kilt is to show your heritage you could do so within any of the above genre.
I also tried to stay away from using fashion as a hallmark of the genres. Fashion is fickle and constantly changing.



Can anyone think of an additional Genre?
Can anyone come up with a reason to wear a kilt that does not fit in one of these 8 genre?

[Kilted Karl]

I think that all kilt wearers could very well fit into the categories you propose. The problem I see is not everyone would get along with the other people in their category.

I think the THCD folks could be put in the Vintage, special occasions, or street wear/day wear categories and would not get along with the contemporary crowd who could fit in either the non conformist or street wear/day wear or outdoor categories.

That being said, I don't think that changing the categories will fix much. This is an online gathering of Human Beings, And wherever you get a bunch of people together, especially online, there are going to be problems. You could make a hundred different categories and there would still be people that happen to be mad that day, who just like to make trouble, are very opinionated, not thinking because it is late at night, or any number of other things that people do, not to mention misunderstandings.

I think the best thing may just be for everybody who cares to try to be kinder, always assume the best of what a person says, and put up with whatever squabbles are bound to happen.

That is just my two cents but as this is your forum you can do whatever you like. I would like to say that X marks has been a great help and encouragement to me in my kilt wearing.
Thank you all!

Sincerely,

:ootd: Karl

[Steve Ashton]

Well Karl it is just that sense of helpfulness that we are trying to foster.

Let's say that a new member comes on. How many times have we heard a new member say "I didn't know where to post this."

Or how about the newbie question "I see white hose worn all over the Scottish websites but you here say to avoid them. What is going on?" We could ask both of these members where they want to wear their kilt, and then direct him to the section that is most appropriate.

A traditionalist can do this just as easily as a modernist. The end result is the newbie has the answer to his question.

Now, if a member wants to post about their new bespoke jacket they would post in the accessory section. A jacket is an accessory to the kilt.
If they build an outfit around a new jacket they could also post in the appropriate section. "Here's my new jacket at this years Burn's dinner."

A traditionalist can post how he dressed at a Highland Games just as a Modenrist could. Two guys with a different sense of style attending the same Highland Games.

In fact I cannot think of a case where this would not work. An idea like this brings us more together than the current headbutting that is going on.
We need to get beyond this division of us vs them. Traditional vs modern. Right vs wrong.

In this example every way or style of wearing a kilt is equally accepted as based on why you are wearing it. Heck, even white hose can be accepted because that is what is normally offered by the rental companies.

Can anyone else think of a case where this will not work?

[Riverkilt]

I'm fine with whatever shakes out. We'd not have refused to join when we first showed up based on how the forum was laid out. Fun to play with it too. Change is good.

On the modern street wear I'm reminded of Women's Wear Daily who (at least used to) send photographers out on the streets of New York City to photograph what women were wearing and publish the photos as current examples of style.

One of the joys of kilting is the many ways kilts can be worn. Sorting out posts by such ways or motivations sounds reasonable to me.

[Mael Coluim]

Can anyone else think of a case where this will not work?

Not that I care to discuss it, but at this moment and usually when I come home I take off trousers or a kilt that would fit into any one of the stated categories and put on a "comfy" kilt; most of which I would not wear out in public. Many here would say its not a kilt but a tartan bath towel with Velcro. I don't think it would go into any of the categories. Not advocating it needs a place, but I do think of it as kilt, and I spend most of my home time in one. I'm sure many here do the same.

Who knows maybe someone would want to talk about it.

[McMurdo]

Steve
As too post #62 I still think that the example I showed earlier would not fit into the categories suggested. This is my reasoning, though it is not vintage, it is not part of a uniform, it is not a costume, it is not worn for a special occasion or endeavour, it is not non conformist, nor is it modern day wear. I do contend it is a traditional kilt outfit and there should be somewhere to post an outfit like this as there are several members who wear their kilts in the same manner. To me a set of subsections that fail to recognize the fact that quite a few of us wear the kilt in this way simply fails.

To my way of thinking it does not matter so much what the reason is, for example we see several different ways of wearing the kilt at a highland games or lets say a kilt night, in the photo below you will notice several different ways of wearing the kilt yet we are all at the same event. Though there are several ways to wear the kilt to a kilt night if all of these styles were going to be discussed in the same sub forum I fear it would simply foster confusion and ill feelings from members who identify with different ways of wearing their kilt.

[Terry1948]

I live now, and have lived, in a number of small towns in the interior of British Columbia. While many of my local acquaintances have a background involving Scottish ancestors, most would not consider themselves Scottish but have expressed interest in my launching into the wearing of a kilt. I am one of the very few amongst these folks who wear the kilt on a regular basis. To date, I have only a tartan kilt, but I have found I can dress it up or down depending upon the occasion. My outfit might pass for TCHD when I dress it up for a fancy occasion, but I can take the same kilt and wear it with a casual shirt and boots, and look more contemporary. It really is, like Steve says, dependant upon what I am doing.

[Hawk]

Steve, please look closer at post #29 by CMcG in this thread.....it has much to offer, mixed with some of the terminology used in your post #62 above. This is an interesting thread as you can see things evolving as we go, towards a possible tweaked outcome.

Hawk

[Steve Ashton]

Glenn, perhaps you can suggest a genre for your example.

I see that this could fit in either the event genre, as you are at a kilt night and so wore the kilt, this way, as appropriate to the event.
Or
I see that this could fit in the day wear/street wear genre as this would appear to be smart business wear with a traditional flair.

Yes, you are dressed in a kilt instead of trousers as a tangible manifestation of your Scottish Heritage, but so are all the others who attended.
By Jock's definition of traditional everyone in your photo is dressed traditionally suitable to the event.

If you have a better idea I would surely like to hear it.