The Scottish Wildcat Tartan thread: conceived here on X-Marks!

[Dixiecat]

Very nice. I'm glad to see that you've taken my suggestions into consideration. I did sit down for a couple of hours with the tartan designer and I can appreciate how much work goes into planning the tartan. I was not satisfied with my design at all, and I couldn't figure out why until I saw your last rendition Glen. It's the background. The use of grey is bang on. And, I like the move from the green to the gold. My only suggestion now, is to try a rendition where the thick black stripes are not marled, but solid. I took your image and made it smaller and tried to imagine what it would look like from a few feet away and the thin black stripes stand out more than the thick ones. Would reversing the emphasis onto the thicker black stripes be more wildcat like? It might tone down the optical illusion that Nathan makes note of as well, I don't know.


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As to the other points that other members have raised. Well, I still think that this whole thing should be overseen by Wildcat Haven and be open to their membership by holding a tartan design contest on their website. I'm positive that their supporters might feel left out of a project that probably touches them deeply. I find it a bit presumptuous that a bunch of xmarkers some of whom have recently 'discovered' the wildcat cause, to take this project on, onto a website that has not and will not ever have an affiliation to Wildcat Haven - lovers of tartan/kilt that we are, well, it doesn't make sense. After, all, I imagine that there's a world outside of xmarks and some of Wildcat Haven's supporters might just have some tartan design contributions to make. I'm glad that AlanH has taken this to the mods as it's very, very hard to separate the tartan from the cause. I'm sure that the issue will get a fair reading with them.

I am also disappointed with some of the comments regarding my initial suggestions for the design. Critical commentary is essential to every project and disagreement is not bullying. Having a bunch of yes-men does not lead to satisfactory endings. I find it telling that the same people who thought the tartan design nigh perfect before my first commentary, are now absolutely delighted with Glen's latest rendition and convinced that this design is nigh perfect. Even Glen himself says that it looks less muddy now, so my suggestions had merit. And, you know what's funny? JockScot suggested this very rendition back at post #87, but you waved him off and his venerable and respected opinion was lost to us. Sometimes it's apparent that the Gentlemen of Xmarks are only gentlemen where it concerns some and not others. And AlanH, if you don't like what I have to say, please don't use a public forum to make a thread asking people to contribute to a tartan design.

[Theyoungkiltman]

To tell you the truth, while the coopers yellow does go better with the other colours, I think it makes it a bit blurry or muddy I like the previous design better.

[unixken]

My only suggestion now, is to try a rendition where the thick black stripes are not marled, but solid.

Dixiecat - this is the nature of the beast. The only places any color will appear solid (and not "marled", as you describe it), is where both the horizontal and vertical threads - of the same color - intersect. At all other points on the tartan, the weave is blending the warp threads (whatever color they may be at that point in the weave) with those of the weft (in whatever color those may also be, at that point in the weave.) The only place you'll get solid black (or solid grey, or solid brown, or solid whatever), is when like colors intersect.

[Alan H]

Dixiecat makes a good point, which has been made off and on by others in this thread...namely, where are the Wildcat Haven people in this process?

The answer is that there aren't a lot of Wildcat Haven people, first of all...and second of all, they're busy out creating a Wildcat Haven! Thirdly, I don't think they obsess over the specifics of tartan design like we do. Instead of that, they obsess over wildcats! However, I find myself agreeing with the idea behind the point that Dixiecat and others have made, anyway.....somehow, Wildcat Haven should be involved in the process.

After exchanging some ideas with Nathan in PM's, I have proposed something to Paul at Wildcat Haven....that he, or someone in his office who is intimately involved in the Haven project and has an eye for design visit X Marks the Scot and choose which tartan, among the several which have been developed up to this point, will be the actual "Scottish Wildcat Tartan".

Unless someone has strong objections to this and gives a resoundingly logical argument against it, I think I'm going to go that route, assuming that Paul agrees to be the decision-maker.

EDIT (16 hours later): I should also say that if for some reason Paul doesn't want to be the decision-maker, or there is nobody in the office who is interested or feels qualified to "judge" then we'll just go to a vote here at X Marks. Also, while I want to give Paul a reasonable chance to make a decision, he's mentioned to me several times that he's going to register and chime in, here, but he's never done it. I don't want to wait for weeks for Paul to get here, so if he doesn't show up or contact me in 3-4 days, then we'll just put it to a vote.

[Calgacus]

I'd just like to say well done to all of you for the effort that is being put in to this project, and I really love the most recent iterations of the design. Having already committed to the MacDuff tartan, I doubt that I can commit to much of this tartan, but hopefully I can stretch to some small amount. I'm thinking two yards might make a nice bed runner, or something like that.

[HarveyH]

It is just worth reminding people that we are looking at a generated image. The subtlty of a harsher or softer yellow on a computer generated pattern may not actually end up being the woven colour.

When this eventually reaches a detailed conversation with the weaver, he should be able to suggest actual thread shades obtainable from his dyer and thread supplier - the colours will, inevitably, shift slightly. And it will be very important to listen to the weaver's suggestions, because he is more used to dealing witht he effects particular colours create on the loom. At that point we are going to have to trust whoever is actually organising the weaving and their judgement (Alan I presume).

Also is the sett size determined here? ( I have tried to read this through so I apologise if I have already missed this). This is where the voice of the kilt-makers will come into play, but the weaver will advise on a sensible rendering of the sett (the warp and weft are never exactly the same) as it takes skill on the part of the weaver to get the sett to work in reality.

[McMurdo]

HarveyH The Sett size was discussed earlier but I do understand why you might have missed it, I have designed it as a 7.5 inch sett.

[HarveyH]

HarveyH The Sett size was discussed earlier but I do understand why you might have missed it, I have designed it as a 7.5 inch sett.

Thank you.

Yes, I'd missed it. But you take my point. Until the weaver is involved it will not be finally clear how the weaving and finishing will affect the sett colour and size.

[Orionson]

In the course of a conversation with Robin Elliot of Andrew Elliot Weavers Ltd. yesterday about our own circa 1800 MacDuff Tartan, the subject of the Scottish Wildcat tartan came up. Robin mentioned that he had been contacted about the project and that he'd be delighted to have the opportunity to be the chosen Weaver.

I have had the distinct pleasure of working with Robin on our project, including a very informative and thoroughly entertaining visit to his Mill in Selkirk. We will soon be returning for the weaving day to be part of the re-creation of this magical old Tartan. I am honoured to recommend Robin Elliot to you for the Wildcat Tartan. You will be delighted with the results of your collaboration.