Looking for a company to make Family Tartan Fabric

[davidlpope]

Nick,

Thanks for your post. I appreciate the update. I've been a strong supporter of Dalgleish over the years and hope that it will continue strong for years to come.

That being said, if I commission a piece of DW fabric from Dalgleish, I expect it to be woven on the Dalgleish looms, not outsourced. I understand that for commercial reasons you may be unwilling to divulge who you outsource to, but will you divulge to your customers whether or not the weaving will be outsourced in the first place?

I don't think this is an unreasonable request. In fact, this is the same assurance I want from any seller of artisan products. When I commission a kilt from a specific kiltmaker I expect their fingers to sew the kilt, not that it will be outsourced to someone else with whom I did not choose to do business.

[Nick Fiddes]

Hi David,

Thanks for this. Much appreciated. :-)

Divulging isn't really the right word. As I said, we do mostly make in-house of course. But even that always involves our working with partners - at least for spinning, and specialist finishing, for example. Our 'offer' or skill set is a start to finish sequence of many competences and resources. And what we're offering for sale isn't the product of a specific loom - it's a fabric in a particular quality (the technical term for its composition and finish) and of a particular quality (i.e. produced to a high standard). And that standard includes delivery schedules. So if for one reason or another we find in the course of the production process that we can meet our promised standards better by asking a neighbour to do part of a job for us, we may do that. Very often we wouldn't even know this at the outset, as our production systems just don't work that way.

Please don't get me wrong. We'd never offer fabrics produced to one quality and then supply another. It would be exactly the right density (i.e. different to other mills) with the right selvedge, using our own yarns, and QC'd to exactly the same standard. And we have never gone further than a quick drive away for such help, so it's not like producing overseas then selling as if we'd made it ourselves, though we know other 'reputable' firms do just that. It's all about delivering our superb fabrics, to the same standard or better as ever, with the best quality of service.

[Priest]

So in a sense you guys are repurposing and reinventing the process to make productivity run alot smoother it just takes time. I can certainly understand that. And me personally I haven't heard anything "bad" concerning the company, only that the products are on the pricey side. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for, I just can't afford it haha.

Hi guys,

I've been very quiet on these boards for a while, mostly as I've been very very busy with working on various fronts to help ensure that DC Dalgliesh does indeed not only survive but also flourishes and is reborn as a top quality weaving house. ;-) In fact, at this moment I'm touring the US on a mission to seek out new markets for our product.

But I thought I'd take this opportunity for a bit of an update, so that I can share facts which may not always be the same as rumours. We hear a lot of stuff about us that's often so far from the truth that we have to wonder where the word of mouth started. And I wish I had more time to keep up with this place. But with two fast-moving businesses (and two small kids) I'm afraid some things have to give.

So firstly, to respond to the last point, I'm afraid I'm not going to share all the details of our production because that's commercially confidential, so you guys can speculate all you like and I won't confirm or deny. All I'll say is that we are still very busy weaving on our own looms in-house (despite more than one customer we know having "heard" we weren't) and we also sometimes outsource parts of jobs, just as Kenneth used to, and just as every other weaver does and always has. It's one of the nice things about this industry that we help each other out.

This might be because because looms our down due to renovation or maintenance (and yes, some of our double width looms in particular were allowed to get into a poor condition by the previous owners, which we are working hard to upgrade) or because we're too busy at the time to meet our promised production schedule on that particular demand, or it might be because it's specialised in some way. For example we're now extending our ranges to offer not just the wools and silks we always have, but also tweeds, cashmeres, and various other yarn qualities and mixes. You'll see one or two of these on our newly updated web site already. This seems like sensible product extension to us, providing our specialist skills in producing beautiful tartans for new markets. But converting our own looms for a cashmere run would be ridiculously inefficient way to operate.

In the past few years we've been on a steep learning curve, and there's been a vast amount of very fundamental ground work to do, in updating an operation that was run out of one man's head in exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same ways that his father did things fifty year previously, into a fit-for-purpose business for today. I fully admit there have been times during that period, with so many changes and inevitable crises from time to time, when with our limited resources we've had to focus on one area of the business and other aspects have suffered. But at every turn we've done our very best not to let anyone down and, where we've failed, to put the problem right.

But I now think we're through the worst of that. We have a customer service operation where the phones are being answered quickly, and the emails replied to promptly. Our product quality standards are not only as good but actually even better than before. And our delivery is as fast as ever, and often much faster. We also have some very interesting new products coming through.

Of course, not everyone likes every change we've made. We've had to reduce some stock ranges where we were spending a fortune on stocking fabrics Kenny had chosen which simply didn't sell. We've introduced a 'set up' charge to avoid weaving short runs at a significant financial loss on each piece - hardly surprising that the customer doesn't like to pay more, but inevitable if we want the facility to survive. (The alternative would simply have been to make short lengths unavailable.) And some commercial customers have found it hard to get used to our new system of insisting they confirm the details of every order before we proceed, but we couldn't afford to keep compensating customers for 'errors' which were mostly down to simple communication confusions.

On the plus side, we now have a far more consistent and reliable stock yarn range, meaning that unlike in Kenny's day (which of course is rose-tinted in many people's eyes) a customer returning for the same fabric a year or two later will actually receive one woven in the same colours. We use machinery which ensures that the fabric comes off the loom right first time far more reliably. And we can compete with the other mills not only on quality but also on price.

And talking of price, well of course a single kilt length woven on a traditional shuttle loom is quite expensive. If you haven't already, watch the video on the DC Dalgliesh web site to see why! But as soon as volumes start to increase, prices fall. And I'm pleased that as a business we are no longer reliant only on the short runs on which our reputation has long been based, but can also produce in volume to the same high standards but very competitively. Our new price list will be published shortly (we've had no change for more than two years) and by my reckoning we'll be the most competitive of all the main weavers for a large proportion of jobs.

There's a lot more to come too, but I won't share that until it's all ready. But trust me, we're not going anywhere. We wouldn't have invested all we have (and not just in money terms) without a strong long term vision, which is only now slowly starting to emerge. Anyone who has specific issues is always welcome to contact me directly and I'll try to resolve whatever the question is myself or get someone in our team to. We really do intend to walk the talk, and would appreciate very much if people would not always take at face value the stuff you hear otherwise.... :-)

Cheers

Nick

[KD Burke]

I suppose that I am, if not unique, then at least a rarity in that I have had occasion to commission custom weaves from D.C. Dalgliesh on four separate occasions. While I can't say that the experience was entirely positive, I will say that the fabric they produced, in all cases, was of the finest quality. I would absolutely order again, but from experience I'd say that communicating expectations in the greatest possible detail will decrease the slim possibility of an unpleasant experience.

[Benning Boy]

A couple of things I've found annoying about Dalgliesh is if you want to work out a custom design for a tartan, Dalgliesh charges extra for it. Marton Mills does not. Also, if you visit this page http://www.dcdalgliesh.co.uk/stock_yarns you can see that a wide range of colors are considered stock colors. However, if you try to use the Scotweb tartan design feature, which one might do if placing a custom order for Dalgliesh-made tartan, you are told if you don't use the simplest colors to design with you will incur an extra charge for special dye. It seems to me to be almost the classic bait and switch scheme. It is said there are a wide range of colors in stock on one page, but on another tells you you will have to pay extra to get them. Marton Mills has a very wide range of yarn colors available, my impression is they offer more than Dalgliesh, and they don't charge extra for anything but a few of the simplest colors. To me, the only reason to buy from Dalgliesh might be to satisfy one's desire for snob appeal. the

[HarveyH]

...Marton Mills has a very wide range of yarn colors available, my impression is they offer more than Dalgliesh, and they don't charge extra for anything but a few of the simplest colors. To me, the only reason to buy from Dalgliesh might be to satisfy one's desire for snob appeal.

I can't share your view, the traditional tartan cloth from D C Dalgleish has a lovely feel to it and a traditional selvedge. I am very grateful to Mr Fiddes for making much clearer in these posts the direction the company is taking and the considerable work being put in hand. At one level it will mean that Dalgleish will be used more as a quality mark than as a description of cloth woven in a particular 'artisan' mill. I do not see that is a problem if everyone is honest and clear about it. I certainly hope it will ensure the continuance of the quality of cloth that many on this site value.

What I do share is some of the frustration at the differences between Scotweb and Dalgleish, the failure to make clear the addition charges which might apply with the bespoke additions, special yarns etc, and, from a British ear, the very american focus of the new web-site (plaid not tartan?). There are also continuing issues about actually getting an answer from Dalgleish when you ask questions, in anything like a professional response time, but this may of course just be part of the difficulties of transition.

Some changes we may disapprove of, like the move away from a traditional selvedge on the range of dance tartans and the application of Dalgleish as a brand name to impart a quality mark on the resale of other cloths, but these may just have to be accepted as a commercial reality to ensure the survival of the much more expensive production of custom tartan.

There are, of course, technological challenges emerging in the industry which will also put pressure on traditionally woven cloth, like the single width cloth now being woven at House of Edgar on high-speed looms that produce a traditional selvedge on one edge of the cloth.

I wish Mr Fiddes every success and hope this ensures the survival of the tartan cloth we all admire.

[Benning Boy]

I have tartan by five weavers on the shelf, and the House of Edgar is by far the nicest, with traditional selvedge. I'd say it's luxurious. The Dalgliesh, purchased from a member of the rabble, is the roughest to the touch, although it has a tradition selvedge. Lochcarron with tucked selvedge is nicer, and I dare anyone to see a difference in the way it is woven from two feet away, without magnification. You can feel the difference, but it's darned hard to see without getting really close to it. Personally, I like the feel of Marton Mills better, but I'm sure that's an individual thing. It has a pleasant hand, and about the right stiffness, if that's the right word, for me. The piece by Knightbridge (I can't remember the correct full name at the moment, it was woven in Vancouver) is very nice as well. It has a tucked selvedge, but it's almost impossible to see, and harder to feel than selvedge on Lochcarron or Marton Mills tartan. Altogether, I find no reason to give Dalgliesh extra points.

[Nick Fiddes]

In terms of being the 'nicest' fabric, clearly I'm biased. And I'd simply say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and tastes will of course differ. But a big reason that we decided to take over the responsibility for keeping the DC Dalgliesh mill going when Kenny was unable to was that it had a reputation amongst kiltmakers in general as being the best fabric out there, and also that as just Scotweb in those days we thought the same (before I was biased!). And we've kept it exactly the same (except for e.g. Dance fabrics where the end user really doesn't care about selvedge, so the extra cost is wasted - we're keeping the price to them down!).

But on another point, I really take exception to the term 'bait and switch' which is unnecessarily insulting. If you don't understand a situation, please do me the courtesy to get in touch and ask for clarification, before charging in with personally hurtful and commercially damaging accusations. There has never been any lack of clarity in our public representations that Scotweb and DC Dalgliesh are two separate businesses, though they happen to have the same owners and now share some back-end resources for reasons of efficiency. As far as the Tartan Designer is concerned, it is a Scotweb resource. In fact we took a principled decision a couple of years ago NOT to convert it to DC Dalgliesh yarns, because we felt it incompatible with the Dalgliesh brand values we were developing, which are all about expert service. You may notice it doesn't appear on the DC Dalgliesh web site!

So the colours there are photographed from another UK mill where we can get short-ish lengths produced at lower cost, still to a good standard. But it doesn't mean we'll produce the fabric there either. We call them 'Weavers' Colours' and promise only that the shades actually woven will be near-matches (but will still represent the recorded design well) so that we can substitute other weaving facilities if and when this suits us. That's the promise there, so please read the service guarantee, and don't go criticising us with malign sleights for things we have never said or done. If a customer wishes to come to DC Dalgliesh with a Scotweb design, it counts as a Design Adaptation (rather than one in our systems) so it takes an expert team member real time to match and input that. That's a service we charge (a little) for, otherwise it would have to be paid for in effect by other customers. It's called being professional.

[Nick Fiddes]

Oh, and by the way, on the 'plaid vs tartan' thing, I expect this has been done to death elsewhere on xmts. But as far as I'm aware, the terms are pretty interchangeable, there's no ultimate definition of tartan beyond its being a criss-cross pattern, and being here in the US right now I'm certainly hearing our product described as plaid far more than as tartan.

But in fact on our web site we are talking about both, and using them consistently differently (at least trying to) without doing to death the distinction. We're using the term Tartan to describe our traditional fabrics, and Plaid to refer to our new Signature fabrics. There is a good reason for the latter, in that some of them don't strictly meet the new legal definition of a tartan in Scotland, as we're using subtly different colours on the warp than the weft with some. These are created more for the design community than the traditional heritage folk, which are two quite different markets. And if we're going to make this business strong for the future, we need to appeal to both.

Hope this helps.

[OC Richard]

About the issue of communication, I've only had a custom weave done once, and the process was efficient and left little room for error:

1) I sent them a colour illustration, and specified the size of sett (around 7") and weight (16/17oz)

2) they sent me yarn samples to pick from

3) the tartan came out looking even better than I could have imagined

I don't even know what mill did it, as I went through an intermediary. I got, as I recall, ten yards (single width) and the cost was around $700. It was around ten years ago.

Does anybody know what the same would cost today?