Something that Hamish wrote years ago that stuck in my head

**Nathan** · 24th November 14, 04:40 PM

Taste is a funny thing. I think the generic looking pic you prefer is pretty darn boring except for the lovely MacDonald of Clanranald tartan. Chacun a son gout. As for the white hose, if you want to look like 90% of the people in the room, fill your boots. I just prefer to put a little more thought into the outfits I create and show that the Highland tradition has a range of palattes and styles that don't have to all be so cookie cutter. I'm with kiltfitz and CMcG on this thread so far.

**McMurdo** · 24th November 14, 07:33 PM

The thing is that your photos you are showing are different formalities while there really is nothing wrong with the photo of the gent in the Prince Charlie it is rather generic. When I first started wearing the kilt I did wear my Prince Charlie in much the same way, here is a photo of me in my first kilt with my Prince Charlie. I bought it early on so I had something to wear for Burns Night.

There is nothing wrong per se with the above outfit, let me say that off the start however after wearing it a few times I realized I looked just like everyone else.

One thing about wearing Highland wear for me anyway is the individuality of it all so why look like everyone else? Alan, you can wear what you want as can we all, for my part my ideas of what looks good has changed over the years. Also I decided that I should do it right. Another thing about the photos you show are that they are of different levels of formality thus things are going to be different. For more clarification you can see the 1 kilt 10 looks thread that Jamie and I did.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/
I think hire shops are great places when you are first starting out, but as I grew in confidence I naturally started experimenting with different looks and more colours than white hose for example. These days I prefer to wear white tie formal for events like Burns nights, like this.

There is nothing wrong with this outfit per se let me say that right off, but it is for certain events only, would I wear it to the pub for Tartan Tuesday? No, but for a Burns Night or St. Andrews Ball then I would. I think the thing to remember is context. The right outfit for the right event.

As to PM John Burgess buying him a drink would be a waste as he passed away in 2005 for more information see the website below
http://www.pmjohndburgess.net/

**Alan H** · 24th November 14, 08:56 PM

So McMurdo, I really like what you just wrote. Seriously, I really appreciate it.

You explained how your taste changed over time. You showed us where you "started" so to speak, and then where you are, now. Along the way you stated that you didn't think that any of this was "wrong", just that you felt sort of "generic" in the earlier version of formalwear that you had and now you feel a bit more....hmm... "individual"? Is that a good word for it?

Guid on ye!

You know, when it comes to wearing a tuxedo, I've always thought that most tuxedo's look the same. I mean, sure someone might have some fancy bling that someone else doesn't have. Maybe someone wears a colorful cummerbund. Nonethless, IMHO, it has always seemed to me that tuxedo's all kind of look the same, and until the last few years, if I had to get extremely formal, I wore a tuxedo. So it's never bothered me that when I have to wear kit like that, I look pretty much like all the rest of the guys in the room. I mean, Frank Sinatra looked like all the other guys in the room, too. So did all the actors playing James Bond. I always felt that maybe one reason mens formal wear was pretty uniform was that it was then upon the man, himself, to stand out due to his personality, kindness, honor, humility, intelligence, and so on. The women got to "stand out" on account of their clothes. But that's just me. Besides, now I don't look like all the other guys in the room because I'm wearing this incredibly colorful kilt. Actually, the kilt I always wear when I get dressed up is the Capercaillie, which is probably the *least* colorful kilt that I own! I guess I'm not much of a peacock!

So, a couple of folks have said that they felt that the advertising photograph of the guy that I put up in the Prince Charlie was kind of boring. Nathan wrote this:

Nathan

Taste is a funny thing. I think the generic looking pic you prefer is pretty darn boring except for the lovely MacDonald of Clanranald tartan. Chacun a son gout.

Which I think is a good comment because:

a.) He starts out by recognizing that everybody has different taste
b.) He says the two magic words... "I think...". Nathan states that HE THINKS that the pic that I prefer is boring, except for the kilt. Well, heck I have no problem with Nathan having an opinion which differs from mine. That's just fine! Those two words - "I think" - render what follows to be an opinion, not a judgement delivered as an ultimatum. Opinions? GREAT! ..... ultimatums? Not so great, IMHO.

So, Nathan, one of the reasons that I actually like the outfit is precisely what you write. We agree 100%... It's boring except for the lovely kilt and tartan. And that, my friend is EXACTLY the point of the whole thread. The man has been dressed by his advertising department in a very simple formal outfit in which the main "thing" is the kilt and the tartan, itself. You look at that picture and what stands out? The kilt.

Bingo. My point, exactly.

**Alan H** · 24th November 14, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by McMurdo

As to PM John Burgess buying him a drink would be a waste as he passed away in 2005 for more information see the website below
http://www.pmjohndburgess.net/

Ah, thanks for that information. I wasn't aware of who he was.

As an aside, I note that on his current website, there are rotating pictures of PM Burgess with a number of friends and dignitaries. In at least two of the pictures, white hose may be observed.

**KiltFitz** · 18th December 14, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Alan H

You know, when it comes to wearing a tuxedo, I've always thought that most tuxedo's look the same. I mean, sure someone might have some fancy bling that someone else doesn't have. Maybe someone wears a colorful cummerbund. Nonethless, IMHO, it has always seemed to me that tuxedo's all kind of look the same, and until the last few years, if I had to get extremely formal, I wore a tuxedo. So it's never bothered me that when I have to wear kit like that, I look pretty much like all the rest of the guys in the room. I mean, Frank Sinatra looked like all the other guys in the room, too. So did all the actors playing James Bond. I always felt that maybe one reason mens formal wear was pretty uniform was that it was then upon the man, himself, to stand out due to his personality, kindness, honor, humility, intelligence, and so on. The women got to "stand out" on account of their clothes.

Sorry, I've been a bit busy lately and just got back to this. I read this a few times and the same question pops up: If the garb is meaningless and irrelevant, why return again and again to a place where people discuss such attire?

"It always comes off, TO ME.....to MY way of reading it, as saying ... "Well, those stupid, ignorant people are duped by the money-grubbing rental companies into wearing cookie-cutter trash, but WE, the pure, the educated and the wealthy who can afford such kit, know better."

Indeed? I have some experience of selling and hiring kilts. Undoubtedly Scotland has probably the largest amount of hire outlets per head of capita anywhere. So what? I hear you say. On this forum I read about and see pictures of all sorts of kilt styles, colurs lengths tartans etc. How many types of kilt can you hire in Scotland? How many places outside Scotland hire non-traditional kilts? (Excluding solid-coloured which are, in fact, traditional in some cases). Do you think that's because the hire industry respects the discerning judgement of the customer? Or do you think that the industry generally treats its customers as novice buyers to be influenced rather than catered for? Why would they have formed that opinion?
The hire industry is one of the most backward and stagnant industries I have ever encountered. Innovation is only entertained if it includes considerable profit or savings. How many hire outlets cater for women in any way such as tartan wear and other items? Few, if any. Are they being sexist? Not at all, it's just that most women are far more discerning customers who would not accept the lack of choice that hire outlets get away with offering men. Women know that the point is to look like you chose it and put some of your personality in it. Not that you stood in a shop while people prattled round you with tape measures handing you things to put on and telling you that it's correct.

"We agree 100%... It's boring except for the lovely kilt and tartan. And that, my friend is EXACTLY the point of the whole thread. The man has been dressed by his advertising department in a very simple formal outfit in which the main "thing" is the kilt and the tartan, itself. You look at that picture and what stands out? The kilt."

We do agree. The kilt IS the only thing that stands out in that picture. but let me put this to you. If the kilt is the most important thing, why have I never received an invitation to a function which specified the type of kilt I wear? I've been told what kind of tie, what kind of jacket, what type of footwear to avoid, even what colours to wear, but not what kilt I should put on. I presume the ones you get say "Dinner Kilt expected" or "Lounge kilt acceptable" perhaps even "Smart/Casual Kilt, no denim please".

In the hire shops, the customer will frequently ask advice of the sales staff. One of the better questions to ask of the customer is what type of event they are attending. to gauge the level of dress. The different answers to that question, however, never change the type of kilt suggested, merely the 'simple' items you find so unimportant and distracting.

**Alan H** · 18th December 14, 09:02 PM

Hm..

In fact, Kilt Fitz, I'm still in the habit of dropping in at XMTS, but find that after something like seven years, I have less and less to say. I have no problem with those who are enamoured of every detail, but after spending a lot of time accumulating such stuff and learning about it, have come to the conclusion that at the end of the day, it's still all just clothes. It's all just clothes and honestly, I don't really care all that much about clothes.

Regarding the rest of your post, It seem to me that Kilt Hire companies are businesses. They are in business to make money. If something doesn't make money I don't see why they should bother with it, and that goes for stocking 146 different clan waistcoats. Some people think that's terrible. I suppose those people don't run businesses.

Regarding men and women... I would put it differently, based on my own experience. I would say that the proportion of women who are significantly concerned with how they look and what "message" their clothing sends is a lot higher than men who are similarly concerned. We're probably saying much the same thing, we just have different ways of saying it and vastly different value judgements of the different approaches. I happen to think that it's a good thing to not put too much worry into what clothes you own and wear.

i enjoy wearing a kilt but the honest truth is that I'm coming to the point where the more I read about attitudes on kilt-wearing on XMTS, the less inclined I am to ever strap one on. It's interesting that the online site that initially fueled my interest is now one of the deterrents. I find myself wearing them less and less, though I have one on, today. Maybe the whole thing has run its course for me. It's been about eight years. Maybe I've had my fun and it's time to move on. I don't know, we'll see. After all, I'm intimately involved in the creation of a new tartan, and I will be making a kilt in that tartan.

I do think it's good that when I do wear a kilt now, it's because I want to wear one, not because I'm all hot to post a picture of it on XMTS.

Also, I decided a while ago that the collection was no longer something of great interest to me and it was time to thin it down and get some closet space back. I will keep a PV kilt to throw in and hike in. I'll keep an X-Kilt. I'll keep the new Gryphon kilt from ratspike because I really like it. I'll keep the three really nice wool kilts that I own, and the Gray Stewart that I made from my mother-in-laws sewing stash while I kept watch while she was dying. The rest will probably be given away. I think eight kilts is more than enough.

Maybe, in the end, they're just clothes after all, like I suspected all along, and I have much more important things to spend my time worrying about.