What are we allowed to post in this section?

[Father Bill]

Hi California.

It looks like we're moving in that general direction too. A good indicator is that the new title is "The Kilt Fashion Section" suggesting it's the fashion in which the kilt is employed, rather than the design in which it is constructed which was largely the basis of the problem with moving posts about.

The three areas are up and running; the other options that were proposed are still locked. My own best guess? I think things are going to settle out pretty fast. We're not done yet, and there are going to have to be a few tweaks yet I'm sure, but I think most of you will be close to satisfied with the decisions out of this.

I'm pretty sure that I can speak for the Forum Moderators in saying that we truly do appreciate the level of caring and the many good ideas that have come forward. I know it's been a rough ride for a couple of days, but we really think you guys and gals are the best there are, and the volunteer staff here try to be worthy of your trust.

Father Bill+

[Godot]

That is sounding good, much thanks updating us, Anne. I've been in roles similar to yours before, and I know it can be trying at times like this.

[Nathan]

Does this mean the Traditional kilt attire threads I started and were moved will be moved back into this renamed subforum?

[Father Bill]

I would think so Nathan. I'm going to bed now, but if you point me to them, I'll try to get them into the newly defined forum for you some time tomorrow if that's acceptable.

[Pleater]

Hopefully they are available for restoration - I'll look to see what I can find but it is rather late here
Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Nathan]

Thanks to you both. I have linked them on in a previous post in this thread. Sleep well and chat tomorrow. It is not urgent but I'm pleased just the same. Thanks everyone for working so hard to clear this all up.

[Pleater]

I have moved the threads on jackets and waistcoats but I hesitated to continue with all of them after glancing at some of the comments on the sporran - might that thread now be best left in accessories?

I'll return to the list tomorrow to consider the remaining moved threads. I'm rather weary now.

Anne the Pleater

[Stitchwiz]

First the pruning needs to be done, the sorting out of the moved threads, the changes in wording - I might have to send out for pizza.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Anne, all the rest of you Mods, Steve & Staff,

We don't envy you all the work involved, but we would enjoy the pizza party with you!
I think that you might enjoy and/or might need a 'not so wee' drop int: or a brew :beer: with that too...



This working together for the betterment of the whole is what convinced me to join this rabble.

It will just take us a while to get used to the changes - we are all creatures of habit, and we are all works in progress. We will all be better for the character building exercises we are going through right now. We all need to continue being patient and kind while this is all sorted.

Thank you for your dedication.

[OC Richard]

Wowza...

I last saw this thread back on, what, Page One?

Personally, I never noticed any problems or issues. I did notice that the "traditional" forum was rather dead but it didn't trouble me much.

As I said the Mods have a tough time with all the potential overlap. As soon as a forum creates subforums the problem arises as to where things should be.

But it's true that a subforum supposedly dedicated to traditional Highland attire is rendered meaningless and purposeless if all you can talk about is the kilt itself in isolation.

The question is, how to subdivide?

I suppose the approach could be taken to have subforums thus:

-traditional kilts
-contemporary kilts
-jackets
-sporrans
-footwear
-headwear
-shirts
-belts
-badges and pins

and simply delete any thread which mentions combining any of these things.

Is that desirable? Does it reflect how the kilt is actually worn?

I would say no. To me, such an approach is absurd.

The other path is to accept that the kilt is (normally!) worn with other clothes, in context, as part of an ensemble or outfit or uniform.

It's not exactly rocket science to perceive that there are different approaches to the context, even in cases when the kilt itself remains the same.

A forum which has the intention of being inclusive would, I think, have room for a variety of kilt-wearing contexts.

Though of course these distinctions are somewhat arbitrary and there will always be grey areas and overlap, what's wrong with, as Sailor Tats proposed, a basic divide like

-traditional and historical Highland Dress
-nontraditional and contemporary kiltwearing

About the term "traditional civilian Highland Dress" being created on this forum, yes perhaps the acronym was, but the term and the concept have been around forever, and the press kit of the band I played in back in the 1980s described our dress in those words. Let's say the concept, and the term, weren't new to me when I joined this forum.

[Cardinal]

I think we members need to ask a serious question. Is the future direction of the forum's content going to be one of trying to fit what users want, and providing us a forum to discuss topics we find interesting? Or is there an existing model already in place that requires social engineering in order to force the atmosphere to conform to what the staff/owner wants it to be?

As Steve and the moderating team sort through the comments, they must answer, to their satisfaction, Tobus' comment above. It is the crux of the entire issue.

How things resolve themselves may not make perfect sense to everybody, but that is not necessary. Remember New Coke? In 1985, the Coca Cola company dropped their century-old soft drink formula in favor of a new one. That new formula was demonstrably the best soft drink ever invented, winning pretty much every blind tasting run on it. Logic would suggest that such a product would be enormously popular, but the public (myself included) rejected it immediately. Public sentiment already identified with the older flavor, and attempts to change the brand damaged the company's earnings. Public sentiment sometimes gets a mind of its own, and bristles at being crossed.

Here at X-Marks, Steve has, ironically, built a brand as THE site to come to for discussions on TCHD, even though TCHD isn't a style of dress he chooses for himself, nor even an acronym he likes. There are other attractions here as well, just as the Coca Cola company makes more than one soft drink, but there is already an established flagship. An attempt to break with that public sentiment could have a "New Coke effect." It's hard to rebuild after something like that.

For me, X Marks' TCHD "flagship" has helped me beyond measure. I have commissioned two kilts and two sporrans from craftsmen on this site, based on this community's recommendations and photos. My coat of arms was designed and brought to life with the help of two members here. My grandfather's old sgian dubh, unworn for 50 years for want of a pommel stone, has been transformed into a family heirloom thanks to a recommendation of another member. I have spent several happy days with members first met here, enjoying companionship at Games and Scottish dinners I would have missed were it not for Steve's website.

I hope this resource will remain, so that others may benefit from it as I have. This is Steve's house, and he should proceed in the way that makes the most sense to him. We members aren't paying rent, we're merely providing free content. As part of the TCHD crowd, I hope there can continue to be a room in this house for us. I am unlikely to wander to the other rooms, since the folks I'm most comfortable with congregate together.

Perhaps it would be possible to let the TCHD room of Steve's house function as best pleases the traditionalists, while members who are keenly interested in other areas of kilt wearing can use other forums/sub-forums to build "brand loyalty" to their favorite poisons.

Best,
Patrick