What are we allowed to post in this section?

[Jock Scot]

Wow! I missed all the correspondence on this one until now, PHEW! It looks as though efforts are being made behind the scenes to smooth out some of the bumps. Are we to get updates on progress?

I have no wish to start up another storm, but if I may, I would like to make one small observation about one word "fashion", in the heading of three very different sub-headings. Now, to me fashion implies rather a fleeting and tenuous connection and is a wholly inaccurate description of two sections in the kilt world and as such, is hardly applicable to historical and traditional kilt attire. I wonder if the word "style", might be a better option, instead? This description still allows for modern accessories and cloths, for those that wish to go down that route, whilst still keeping the style within the bounds of what a person might want to achieve with their kilt attire and that is hardly fashion in my book.

[OC Richard]

Now, to me "fashion" implies rather a fleeting and tenuous connection and is a wholly inaccurate description of two sections in the kilt world and as such, is hardly applicable to historical and traditional kilt attire. I wonder if the word "style", might be a better option, instead?

Ah, the meanings of words! Dictionaries define one word with others, and a Thesaurus gives ostensibly equivalent words, yet it's widely recognized that there's no such thing as exact synonyms, and no word means exactly the same thing to any two people.

So, the dictionary I have to hand states, in part:

fashion 4. the current style or mode of dress, speech, conduct, etc.

style 6. the current fashionable way of dressing, speaking, acting, etc.

and my Thesaurus says:

fashion style, custom, mode, trend, general practice, usage, habit, prevailing taste, vogue, craze, fad, rage

style 4. fashion, vogue, currency, favor, trend, taste, craze, fad, mode, rage

all of which make "fashion" and "style" be about as equivalent as any two words could be!

On the other hand, there's a book dedicated to exploring the shades of meaning of various words

Use The Right Word
A Guide To Modern Synonyms
by S. I. Hayakawa

There's no entry for "fashion" or "style" but there is this:

stylish
chic
dapper
fashionable
modish
smart
spruce

These words refer to grooming and clothes that are fastidious, elegant, well designed, or in accordance with current taste. Stylish emphasizes something designed and executed so as to display a trend-setting flair for what is in vogue. In this it is close to fashionable, but is less formal, suggesting a more dramatic appearance, based on more transitory up-to-the-minute standards. By contrast, fashionable emphasizes elegance, correctness, and possibly a simplicity of expressive taste that is not likely to become dated so quickly: Leopard coats were stylish for a season, but mink coats will always be fashionable...

Of course these shades of meaning vary from person to person, region to region, and through time. Use The Right Word was written in 1968 and is probably already dated in many of its opinions. I know that I, personally, don't make any distinction between 'stylish' and 'fashionable' and Jock's impression is the opposite of Hayakawa's.

[MacLowlife]

I am with you, Jock, but, let us remember the old forum denominations were The Kilt Styles. Weren't they? New Words were needed to show the new enlightened outlook. It seems the new terminology was not meant so much to lump all of kilt wearing into "fashion" as to allow us to distinguish one fashion of kilt wearing from another. As in "He behaves in a gentlemanly fashion." That usage of the F word is pretty old, too.

Advertising copywriters have made a fortune distinguishing their clients' stylish wares from merely fashionable ones, while their partners sold other goods as The Height of Fashion. Somehow, in that context, Stylish is durable and good looking, while Fashionable is fast and a little cheap- and attractive as the devil.

I agree with you, we want to be Timeless and Durable, but now and then, it's not the end of the world if others see us as attractive as the devil, too.

[Father Bill]

...and shades of...

[Jock Scot]

OCR.

With the greatest of respect we all know that meanings of a particular word have different meanings depending on the context, also time changes word meanings too, take the word "gay", it does not mean today what it used to mean some 40 years ago.

As we are talking about clothing then "fashion" means a transient and short term timeline such as this year's fashion as opposed to last year's fashion and so on. Ok we can split hairs on the word "style" too if we choose, but I think we all know what modern style, traditional style, historical style means.

[Liam]

OCR.

With the greatest of respect we all know that meanings of a particular word have different meanings depending on the context, also time changes word meanings too, take the word "gay", it does not mean today what it used to mean some 40 years ago.

As we are talking about clothing then "fashion" means a transient and short term timeline such as this year's fashion as opposed to last year's fashion and so on. Ok we can split hairs on the word "style" too if we choose, but I think we all know what modern style, traditional style, historical style means.

OCR and JS. Gentlemen..... I believe we are encountering another example of "nations being separated by a common language"

[California Highlander]

OCR and JS. Gentlemen..... I believe we are encountering another example of "nations being separated by a common language"

Yes and no. California, USA native-born member and I agree with Jock Scott on fashion and style in this context.

[ThistleDown]

With respect, OCR, Dr Hayakawa was president of the International Society for General Semantics (now the Institute for GS) and believed very strongly in the value of 'context' in the definition of words. On this subject he contributed innumerable articles to the Society's annual journal -- ETC -- during his lifetime.

[Liam]

Yes and no. California, USA native-born member and I agree with Jock Scott on fashion and style in this context.

Of course you too are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean either JS or OCR are correct. My position is that they both are.
Slainte

[Father Bill]

My position is that on XMarks we seem to be able to quibble over the length of a shoelace. Wow!