Black tie and white tie for kilts?

[kiltedtom]

Guess I am a real uneducated individual. I see no differences between white tie and black tie (other than the obvious colors). They both look equally dressed up and uncomfortable to me. They seem to harken back to days when individuals were only allowed to dress according to their status in society. And people were judged by the clothes instead of the person inside. I have seen some very spiffy looking men in kilts and formal regalia. If someone else does not like it, that is his or her issue.

I do not intend to insult anyone with my opinion here. I just think the world should be beyond such class distinctions. But, more likely, it never really will be.

Have a good time however you decide to dress.

Tom

[Highwayman]

My personal explanation of black tie versus white tie.

Black tie: You get to dress like James Bond.
White tie: You get to dress like the Monopoly Guy.

Coincidentally, I just summed up my personal motives for buying and wearing both outfits.

[Father Bill]

Well... I'll come off as a toff here, but it was by mutual agreement that people dress certain ways for certain occasions, and by doing so it was a sign of mutual respect. I admire mutual respect.

Showing up in jeans at a "lounge suit and tie" event is usually a sign of disrespect more than poverty. Similarly, showing up in black tie at a jeans and jumper event is equally disrespectful. It's a matter of respecting the wishes - usually of the host(s).

[MacLowlife]

H Man, the best and most important thing you need to know was buried somewhere above- white tie in a kilt is BLACK tie. Beyond that, being very dressed up in a kilt is generally dressed up enough.

My reading of your question is that you are wondering about the propriety of wearing kilt-based white tie. Or maybe you are wondering what that would entail. In either case, check out the One Kilt Ten Looks thread. As for appropriateness for your Masonic functions, you're probably better off consulting Masons on that point.

And yes, wearing white tie does set you apart from most of the population, but in what is generally thought of as a good way. If you are comfortable, what it does is make you look good. If you aren't comfortable, your clothes aren't going to help. And if you are a jerk, you are a jerk, regardless of how you are dressed.


Like most men nowadays, the Monopoly guy wears a range of outfits, some of them true white tie, some of them other forms of dress. If you want to look like a cartoon, he is probably a good model. Otherwise, the very best thing to do is to dress like the guy who has been going to the event for a few years.

[BadenochWolf]

I'm a yank, but my home lodge has Scots heritage going all the way back to its founding in 1775. We kilt for degree work and other big functions, but it's only ever Argylls and Prince Charlies. For one thing, even our grand line is usually in tuxedo, rather than white tie.

The photo below was from the night of a Grand Lodge visitation and third degree. As you can tell, even when you tell people dress codes, you get some outliers.

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[OC Richard]

Whatever the official rules are, I wore a white tie at my wedding.



A Prince Charlie is obviously nearly identical to a tailcoat, only having shorter tails, as the kilt demands. The Prince Charlie appears to be a 20th century invention and is merely a tailcoat with added silver buttons, cuffs, and shortened tails.

Actual tailcoats have often been worn with the kilt, after having the tails shortened. This did not change the appearance of the front of the coat in the least.

With either sort of coat, the kilt can be worn as part of a visual equivalent to White Tie and Tails, if not a verbal/technical equivalent.

Same coat. Same shirt. Same waistcoat. Same tie. From the waist up, identical. From the waist down, yes kilts are not trousers.

[Father Bill]

Ah Richard; I notice that the white tie came early in life and the white whiskers later! Your bride is beaming beautifully in that picture. Lovely lady!

[tpa]

Whatever the official rules are, I wore a white tie at my wedding.

I did something similar. Apologies for quality of the picture, it is a photo of a slide.

[Taskr]

White Tie is not a tuxedo - it is incredibly more formal and has a set of rules of etiquette that the majority of us will never in our lifetimes have to consider (and if you do or ever do, my most humble appreciation for you having reached that station in life). There is no need to consider whether such conventions are correct of incorrect, they simply are. From my knowledge of protocol and orders of dress, and my completely limited knowledge of White Tie for having never had to deal with it, I would submit that if you have never seen photos of a member of the Royal Family kilted to a White Tie event there is no known kilted equivalent. Full military highland regalia, being the very highest order of ceremonial dress, might be suitable if appropriate to the occasion (and the wearer is indeed serving in a kilted regiment) according to a note in a manual.
The options for black tie and kilt are well discussed in threads in this forum, which contributors range from black argyll to montrose doublet. All of which have been very helpful in sorting out my own decisions on the subject.

[TomFromBama]

Well... I'll come off as a toff here, but it was by mutual agreement that people dress certain ways for certain occasions, and by doing so it was a sign of mutual respect. I admire mutual respect.

Showing up in jeans at a "lounge suit and tie" event is usually a sign of disrespect more than poverty. Similarly, showing up in black tie at a jeans and jumper event is equally disrespectful. It's a matter of respecting the wishes - usually of the host(s).

This ^^^

As an aside, and just for what its worth, here in Mobile we have a relatively old Carnival tradition (at least by North American standards ) dating to 1703, and quite a few active Carnival associations, many of which host formal Balls. The majority of these are "White Tie", and many are, by agreement of their respective memberships, strictly enforced "Costume de Rigueur", which is interpreted locally as "straight up" traditional White Tie - Black tailcoat, White pique shirt, vest and bowtie, black shoes, and NO colored accessories of any kind beyond perhaps cufflinks.

As a result, Mobile probably has the largest per-capita ownership of White-Tie apparel in the world. But it also means that, at least in my "universe", there would be no such thing as a White Tie Kilt outfit, as I'd be denied admission to most formal Balls here, and rightly so.

That said, I do enjoy wearing Black Tie to various appropriate events - Symphony, Opera, Ballet, etc., and my hope for 2015, budget permitting, will be to acquire a few remaining accessories and discard my black trousers in favor of a kilt for "Black Tie" occasions.