Clan Douglas

[kiltedtom]

Mathew,

First, welcome to the forum. You will find it full of very nice and informative people. Second, I really like your tartan. the color combination is great. And it works wonderful for the Christmas season as well. Happy holidays and best wishes for the new year.

Tom

[Mathew MacKillop]

Why thank you, Tom! For the welcome and for the tartan appreciation! May I return the favour by complementing that magnificent beard?

[macwilkin]

Plus, I don't want to be stuck with district or fashion (shudder) tartans.

Matthew: please don't take offence at my reply, but are you aware that a number of tartan scholars consider the district tartan concept to be an older one than the clan tartan?

Regards,

Todd

[Mathew MacKillop]

I did not know that, but it is not really for reasons of age of the concept that I would prefer not to wear one. It is more that I am not from that district, but I am from my family, if you take my meaning. If I were told with some certainty that between period X and Y folks in the area my ancestors occupied wore a certain district tartan, and that this predated the acceptance of what is now the clan tartan, I would certainly consider it, but I am aware of no such evidence.
I'm betting, too, that the entire history of tartans in not so cut and dry that any one family or district tartan can really be said to be older than any other. It may be possible to nail down dates and times that certain tartans were worn by certain people in certain places, but from everything I've read on here so far the early history seems quite convoluted. Of course, you are likely to know more than I do!
This whole thing is just fascinating, really, and I did not think (though I might have, had I considered it!), that it would be so complicated as it is!

[freddie]

MacKillop (or my family variant MacPhillips) is allied to both the MacDonald sub clans MacDonnell of Keppoch (same tartan) and MacDonald of Glencoe ( a nice wine coloured tartan). However have you considered MacDonald of The Isles Hunting ? A beautiful green tartan with blue stripes and red and white over stripes.

[macwilkin]

I did not know that, but it is not really for reasons of age of the concept that I would prefer not to wear one. It is more that I am not from that district, but I am from my family, if you take my meaning. If I were told with some certainty that between period X and Y folks in the area my ancestors occupied wore a certain district tartan, and that this predated the acceptance of what is now the clan tartan, I would certainly consider it, but I am aware of no such evidence.
I'm betting, too, that the entire history of tartans in not so cut and dry that any one family or district tartan can really be said to be older than any other. It may be possible to nail down dates and times that certain tartans were worn by certain people in certain places, but from everything I've read on here so far the early history seems quite convoluted. Of course, you are likely to know more than I do!
This whole thing is just fascinating, really, and I did not think (though I might have, had I considered it!), that it would be so complicated as it is!

It's necessarily that a single tartan is older than another, but the concept of the district tartan. That fact is well-documented by scholars. The concept of tartans named for specific clans really didn't originate until the end of the 18th/beginning of the 19th century. I'm hoping that Matt or Peter will chime in here and explain it better than I can.

I own two kilts, one in my clan tartan, and one in the Iowa state tartan, which was designed in 2003. Even though it is a "young" tartan in that regard, for me, it not only stands for my Scottish ancestors who immigrated to Iowa in the 19th century, but also for the German, Danish, Norwegian and other fellow immigrants that they intermarried with in their new home, which they contributed to via their churches, lodges, military service, farms, etc. Would they have worn the Iowa tartan? Of course not, it wasn't around in 19th century Iowa. But the symbolism of that place is what is important to me. But that is just me.

Again, I do hope I haven't caused offence.

T.

[Mike_Oettle]

As Macwilkin has pointed out, there is nothing wrong with district tartans. You can wear one from the district your family hails from in Scotland (the MacKillops or the Douglases – one being in the Isles, the other in the Borders) or one that connects you to your home province or country. Both the Maple Leaf tartan (Canada’s national) and the Plaid du Quebec are most attractive.
And there are various classes of fashion tartans besides. Some are just a designer’s fancy, while others were designed with a particular region in mind, and may one day be adopted official as that region’s district sett. Then there are commemorative tartans, too, which could also have a bearing on the region you come from.
Both my kilts are in what are supposed to be fashion setts. One is in Mighty Men tartan, which I wear because it symbolises the Christian Faith, while the other is in an unregistered David McGill design called Botswana. I am not from that country, but I like the colours of the design.
My country has a great lack of district tartans (we don’t even have a national one that everyone can identify with, although McGill brought one out (this one is registered) called South Africa. It is not recognised by the government.
Consider yourself blessed that you live in a country that has such a wealth of district tartans – national, provincial, territorial and many for smaller areas.
I share your love of the MacKillop tartan, but while you are considering Douglas, have a look at the variety that clan offers. The Black Douglas is also quite a handsome one, which is worn by one of our South African regiments (or used to be).
Regards,
Mike