TV Programme - History of the bagpipes

[David]

There is a 2 part series starting on Wednesday night on BBC2 (might be BBC2 Scotland) at 21:00. Its called Phil Cunninghams Pipe Dream. Phil (the accordion player) intends to write a piece of music for the pipes and looks at the history of the pipes, starting in Europe. The programmes will appear on the BBC iPlayer shorty after broadcast.

[OC Richard]

I really wonder how they present the "history of the bagpipe."

I see the same flights of the imagination presented as "history" over and over, and through sheer repetition these myths gain a legitimacy they don't deserve.

It would be refreshing if someone, for once, were to stick to the known facts (there aren't many) and look to principles used in genetics and linguistics (such as the age-area hypothesis) to approach the subject in a more scientific way.

I would be dumbfounded if anyone were to do that. It's always the same mythology, unsupported by anything in the way of evidence.

[RichardM]

I would love to see it but BBC America just shows reruns of American sitcoms. It puzzles me.

[neloon]

First programme seemed quite reasonable given the need to keep the casual viewer's attention. After all, Phil C. is the Royal Scottish Conservatoire's Artistic Director for the BA degree in Scottish Music. A good spread of pipes from Greece, Bulgaria, Estonia, Italy, Galicia, France and, of course, Ireland.
Alan

[The Q]

I watched it down here in Norfolk over the IPlayer, I enjoyed the program a lot and it was very interesting to see all the different types of Pipes.
( I know nothing much about bagpipes.) I look forward to the next show

[OC Richard]

First programme seemed quite reasonable given the need to keep the casual viewer's attention. After all, Phil C. is the Royal Scottish Conservatoire's Artistic Director for the BA degree in Scottish Music. A good spread of pipes from Greece, Bulgaria, Estonia, Italy, Galicia, France and, of course, Ireland.
Alan

Do they suggest a point of origin?

As I alluded to, scientific rigour never seems to be applied to "bagpipe history".

What one hears over and over are things like the bagpipes had a "middle eastern" origin, and that they were played in ancient Egypt or what have you.

Needless to say there's no evidence for any such stuff.

It's very enlightening to apply the age-area hypothesis to the bagpipe. This is the concept which makes it obvious that modern humans had a African origin, and would make it obvious to a researcher who knew nothing of history but only examined the current distribution of English that Britain is its home.

It's the notion that when you come across a thing that has very little variation across a wide area that the thing was introduced recently and spread rapidly, and when a thing has a huge number of variations in a small area that that is the probably point of origin. (Look at DNA in Africa vs the rest of the world, or English in Australia vs Britain.)

This principle suggests not only that the bagpipes didn't originate in "the middle east" but rather was introduced there fairly recently: virtually the same species of bagpipe exists, with very little variation, from the Atlantic shore of North Africa all the way into India.

The area of greatest variation is Europe. The greatest variation in Europe is in France and in the Balkans.

[neloon]

Richard,
"Do they suggest a point of origin?"
All they say is that the pipes are pan-European with the earliest written reference in Greece.

Middle east/ Egypt? "Needless to say there's no evidence for any such stuff." You want "scientific rigour" but you seem to be accepting a null hypothesis!

Alan

[Jack Daw]

Let's not argue about the historical accuracy of certain Biblical events, but I cannot help but to point out easy references in the ancient scriptures, specifically the Old Testament, in which the bagpipes are referred.

[OC Richard]

easy references in the ancient scriptures, specifically the Old Testament, in which the bagpipes are referred.

This has been refuted, often, in the past. Hebrew had no word for "bagpipe" (at least that's what people who know Hebrew have told me).

Likewise ancient Irish writings are often sited, but Irish scholars point out that none of the words in question can be shown to refer to bagpipes, but rather are fairly generic words used to refer to various tubelike instruments.

The earliest written reference seems to be the one of Nero playing, and the writer had no word for the instrument, but rather had to explain it.

About "absence of proof being proof of absence" of course that's a fallacy.

On the other hand there's the "space alien" test: there is just as much evidence for bagpipes in the ancient Middle East as there is for space aliens in the ancient Middle East. It's this test which helps us stick to the evidence and avoid wild invention.

[O'Callaghan]

The oldest form seems to be the Gata, with a long downward facing bass drone, which seems to be found in Southern Europe, e.g. the Iberian peninsula and former Yugoslavia. I think the musical scale they are tuned to, even in Scotland, is not a European one, and may be Middle Eastern. Mind you, I can't play a note.

ETA: Regardless of ancient Irish writings, there are ancient Irish drawings of bagpipes, which don't need linguistic interpretation. You can just look at the picture.