Jacobite era tartans still in use today

[figheadair]

Peter I'll have to disagree about the binding. It's absolutely clear that the same edging goes along the bottom of the (great) kilt and up the front edge, in The Piper painting. The painter certainly would not have taken the selvedge colour and put it up the front edge of the kilt where it didn't exist. It simply wasn't in the bones painter of that style and quality to invent something like that; it would have gone against his training and the art style of the period.

Well we'll have to disagree; however, from a technical perspective there is obviously no need to bind a selvedge and the act of doing so would affect the handle of the cloth because it would not move like body of the plaid. There is no know actual example of a plaid with a binding, there are however at least two surviving plaid with a total border - discussed here. We have no idea how common this technique was as the majority of 18th century plaids haven't survive but it is reasonable to assume that the technique was used on other examples and there is no reason to suppose that it was not also done with a selvedge mark as opposed to a selvedge pattern in the NS plaids.

[notlob]

I believe the MacLean Hunting (green black & white) is mentioned going back to the 1500's, Lennox is quite old as well.

[McElmurry]

You prefaced your list with the word definitely. How would you describe the provenance of the Morrison Red tartan based on available information?

[OC Richard]

the Piper's tenor drones appear to project from a single, y-shaped stock!

Yes!



There are a number of early images showing this. It's of great musicological interest, Highland pipes as they're made nowadays being the sole British or Irish bagpipes without the drones in a common stock.

It seems that Highland pipes with only two tenors (no bass) were common at one time, a fascinating connexion with Danish pipes.

[Damion]

Is there a summarised collection of this information somewhere? Like a website or book.

Info like weight of cloth, surviving pieces, differences in weights of tartan used for different garments, preferred colours?

[Ordway]

Jock: Dalgleish did a special run of the so called MacLeod "portrait tartan" in ancient red for me, through my kiltmaker, in 2009. Robert MacDonald of Vancouver, British Columbia, made a kilt and bias cut 5 button waistcoat. It took some getting used to, but it has become my favorite for formal wear. (sans matching waistcoat).

[MacGumerait]

Peter ,

Any thoughts on the accuracy of the reported age of the Eglinton tartan ?

Of course this is not a Jacobite related tartan , but according to what I have read it pre-dates Culloden .

According to information that I have read which referenced DW Stewart's book , the Eglinton tartan was adopted by the Montgomerie Clan in 1707 . This was supposedly based on information gathered at Eglinton Castle in 1893 .

I know the history of DW Stewart and I know the current tartan is a Wilsons pattern .

Just curious of your opinion about this 1707 information , which if it's true , it would be an early tartan . Not sure that I trust the info that I have read .

Thanks , Mike

[figheadair]

I believe the MacLean Hunting (green black & white) is mentioned going back to the 1500's, Lennox is quite old as well.

The claims about Hunting MacLean are based on the widely discredited VS and the tartan cannot be dated earlier than the draft VS, the Cromarty Mss c1829. Similarly, the Lennox is claimed to be based on an old miniature. Apart from the obvious potential difficulty in extracting a tartan with any sort of accuracy from any portrait, let alone a small one, I have never seen, nor know of anyone that has seen, the alleged picture. So both setts belong in the ‘no proof’ box so far as being Jacobite era setts.

You prefaced your list with the word definitely. How would you describe the provenance of the Morrison Red tartan based on available information?

This is another one of those tartans that is claimed to be old by association. In this case, the fact that a piece of tartan is associated with a dated bible does not mean in itself that the tartan is contemporary. This is another fragment that it would be interesting to examine but which I have been unable to track down, or even find a photo of.

Is there a summarised collection of this information somewhere? Like a website or book.

Info like weight of cloth, surviving pieces, differences in weights of tartan used for different garments, preferred colours?

No there isn't. It's just too specialist. I could do it but it would take some time to arrange and cross-reference and the ends would needs to justify the means and I'm not sure that there is sufficient interest to make this a priority.

Jock: Dalgleish did a special run of the so called MacLeod "portrait tartan" in ancient red for me, through my kiltmaker, in 2009. Robert MacDonald of Vancouver, British Columbia, made a kilt and bias cut 5 button waistcoat. It took some getting used to, but it has become my favorite for formal wear. (sans matching waistcoat).

Do you mean that you wear Murray of Tullibardine, or the modern Red MacLeod variation)

Any thoughts on the accuracy of the reported age of the Eglinton tartan ?

Of course this is not a Jacobite related tartan , but according to what I have read it pre-dates Culloden .

According to information that I have read which referenced DW Stewart's book , the Eglinton tartan was adopted by the Montgomerie Clan in 1707 . This was supposedly based on information gathered at Eglinton Castle in 1893 .

I know the history of DW Stewart and I know the current tartan is a Wilsons pattern .

Just curious of your opinion about this 1707 information , which if it's true , it would be an early tartan . Not sure that I trust the info that I have read .

Mike,

O&R contains quite a lot of myth and error presented as fact. As with some of the other claims discussed above, the evidence to support Stewart's claim ref the Eglinton tartan is wanting. I suspect that it was a Wilsons' sett in origin.

[neloon]

"... it would take some time to arrange and cross-reference and the ends would needs to justify the means and I'm not sure that there is sufficient interest to make this a priority. "

I'm sure the task would be enormous, Peter.
But interest long into the future might be quite considerable and it would be a great pity if your expertise were not properly collated by yourself.
Alan

[Ordway]

Peter: Alll I ever knew about kilts was MacLeod of Harris modern, and I have had one for over forty years. As 1760 was a date of historical significance where I live, I decided to procure a tartan of that era for the two hundred fiftieth anniversary of that event. My rudimentary research led me to choose tartan number 1173 on the Scottish Tartans World Register, then referred to as the MacLeod portrait tartan. My kiltmaker ordered the tartan from Dalgleish and produced a wonderful kilt etc. If that means I am wearing a Murray of Tullibardine tartan if won't have been the first time I have been misinformed. At about 1600 dollars and a trip from the east coast Canada to Vancouver to meet the kiltmaker, I will continue to wear it and tell people it is a MacLeod tartan.