Information for tartan buyers

**Barb T** · 14th May 15, 06:03 PM

Also - I will second Alan's observation that Customs duty is a hit-or-miss thing. You're best off figuring that the duty will be 24% when you budget your custom weave, and then, if you don't wind up being charged duty, just use it as mad money. This is a question of the difference between evading and avoiding. It's illegal to evade taxes by claiming that something is what it isn't. On the other hand, if US Customs decides that they will not charge you duty, you have avoided taxes, and that is not illegal. So, it's pretty much a matter of finger-crossing. But you SHOULD plan on paying duty.

**KD Burke** · 15th May 15, 04:55 AM

I've ordered custom runs of fabric on (I think!) five occasions. On four of those, I could not have been happier. The fifth time I ended up paying a substantial amount for cloth that was not suitable for the purpose for which I had commissioned it. I was trying to duplicate a previous order. I went to the same mill that had produced the first lot, sent them a sample of the cloth I was trying to duplicate, and was explicit in my desire to match the colors as closely as possible.

It seems the mill had changes stock colors since my original run and the second run was in a palette significantly different from the first. Think of the difference between "Modern" and "Ancient" and that's similar to the result.

Had I been aware of this, I likely would have paid extra for custom dyeing, but the weaver didn't indicate that there would be any problem at all. Instead they surprised me with a new variation on the tartan that I had not considered, and frankly, didn't like.

The mill and I came to a mutually disagreeable settlement on the issue of payment.

The lesson, of course, is to ask questions. Even if you are certain that there is no doubt of your expectations, verify them!

**Barb T** · 15th May 15, 05:19 AM

This is a good cautionary tale. Any mill will be happy to pop into the mail a twist of each of the available thread colors, plus reasonable alternates. So, you should always ask just to make sure that you and the mill are on the same page WRT colors.

I will also say that I learned many years ago from my photographer husband that two color photographs of the same scene, one taken with Kodachrome and the other with Ektachrome (which each had a different color balance, for those of you who don't remember the time of film cameras....), look equally great when looked at separately. But, put them together, and - whoa - they look really different from one another. Looked at side by side, you might very well like one better than the other, even though a minute ago, you thought they were both great when you looked at them separately.

I mention this because we had something of the same issue with the Wildcat tartan. We couldn't match the original tartan as designed on the computer, and we had to make some compromises on thread color. Put side by side, the paper printout of the original design and the finished tartan are quite a bit different. But, looked at by itself, each is fabulous. So, unless you are trying to match a previous length of tartan (as KD Burke was), get as close as you can with the colors, and then put away the computer printout and love your tartan.

**unixken** · 15th May 15, 03:37 PM

I have been fortunate enough to have commissioned short length single-width custom weaves on three occasions. The first two were for existing tartan designs that are not normally stocked, and the last for a tartan that I designed. These included a Buchanan Hunting in "ancient" colors, a Buchanan in "reproduction"colors, and my own "Leaf Peeper" design, inspired by my annual autumn pilgrimages to New Hampshire.

As the responses to this thread which appear above mine have covered so many points to consider already, I will mention only a few, here.

The confusion about "Weavers Colors"
With regard to the notion of designing with "weavers colors", allow me to define what that means. First, it does NOT mean that all weavers have the exact thread color shades that you see in a tartan design tool, on your screen. If you select a color that resembles "cherry red", know that each weaver's inventory will include some that look "kinda sorta" like cherry red, while others will look "sorta kinda" like it, while others will be more "it could be called cherry red, if viewed under the indirect incandescent light of a refrigerator lightbulb, in the shadow of a zebra stampede."

What "weavers colors" means is that if you select "cherry red", the weaver will look through their shades of red, and THEY will select what THEY feel most closely matches their interpretation of "cherry red", and what THEY feel is most appropriate for the weave. Although the on-screen color in the tartan designer might be labeled "cherry red" for your convenience (or "mustard yellow", or whatever), these are not the way a weaver (or the wool dyer) labels their colors, and are open to individual interpretation.

How a design is recorded by the SRT, regarding colors
Consider how the designs are actually recorded at the Scottish Register of Tartans! For example, my own Leaf Peeper is recorded for posterity, with the following thread count and color information:

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Note that my tartan is recorded as having "Red" in it. Not cherry red, bright red, dark red, fire engine red, blood red, or any other label. A weaver, working only from the recorded description, would have to make guesses as to which shade of red would work well with which shades of the other "generic" color labels the design is to include.

Now imagine going back to the weaver at a later date for a second order, or going to a different weaver, and hoping the colors between the two orders match. Get thread samples (as stressed by others above) each time, and save a swatch of the resulting fabric to match against thread samples, for any later order!

Registering your design
Finally, if you do decide to design your own tartan, consider registering it with the Scottish Register of Tartans. This is the official government body in Scotland that records known tartan designs. When you get your fabric woven, save a swatch to send to them, where they will preserve the sample of your fabric for their archives. The swatch should be large enough to show one complete iteration of the sett.

Another body to consider registering with (and sending a swatch to) is the Scottish Tartans Authority. Where the Scottish Register of Tartans is an official government agency, the Scottish Tartans Authority is a charity "dedicated to preserving, promoting and advancing Scottish Tartans - their origins, history, manufacture, use and development."

Save any scraps!
The last thing I would like to suggest is that you save any scraps that you can from your woven fabric, as you might find them great for craft making, or for making accessories to wear with your kilt (even cuff links, or flashes if so inclined.) You might also like to mount a sample of your fabric in a frame, along with your SRT certificate of registration! A great source for craft-worthy scraps is the cuttings that come from the waist of the kilt, where all the pleats are gathered. Ask your kilt maker to send you all the scraps!

**figheadair** · 15th May 15, 09:54 PM

Ken's last point is important, especially if your run is likely to be a one off. Kilts can get damaged and it's invaluable to have a small amount of the original cloth that could be used to patch a tear or hole should the worse happen.

**Benning Boy** · 18th May 15, 08:42 AM

**Tobus** · 19th May 15, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Barb T

This is a good cautionary tale. Any mill will be happy to pop into the mail a twist of each of the available thread colors, plus reasonable alternates. So, you should always ask just to make sure that you and the mill are on the same page WRT colors.

This is invaluable advice, as it avoids misunderstandings or misrepresentations due to computer images. When I had a custom run of Reproduction Colquhoun K1 tartan cloth done a few years ago by DC Dalgliesh (commissioned through Barb T. for a custom kilt), she and I had talked about the colours. I had a pretty good idea of the colours based on seeing other peoples' kilt photos, but just to make sure, I was sent a swatch of a tartan in a similar Reproduction colourway (along with a twist of yarn of each colour, as I recall), just to make sure it was what I wanted. It did look slightly different in person, but it was just what I wanted, and we ordered it.

In retrospect, I think having a swatch of tartan in the same colour scheme (even though it was not the actual tartan I was ordering) was essential. While having the bits of yarn was helpful in seeing the colours live and in person, I doubt I would have been able to truly envision the completed tartan by just looking at some small twists of wool yarn. So I would recommend, based on my personal experience, that if you are going to commission a custom tartan, you might search or enquire about an existing tartan swatch that uses the same colours as well. It certainly couldn't hurt, and may give you a better idea about how the yarn colours work or interact when they're woven into the twill pattern. Obviously they won't have one exactly like you want, if you're after a tartan that doesn't exist in their inventory, but finding something similar for the swatch is better than nothing.

Multi-Tiered Pricing Schedules

Anyway, my custom tartan experience probably isn't the norm. At the time I did this, DC Dalgliesh did not stock certain clan tartans in Reproduction colours. So we went into it as a custom run, which would have to be single-width cloth. This was several years ago, so these prices are no longer valid, I'm sure. And a lot has changed with their business model. But at the time, I was quoted a price of 30GBP/yard if I ordered less than 15 yards, and 27GBP/yard for 15 yards or more. I actually needed about 14.5 yards. Since this was right under the minimum for the discounted price, it actually would have cost the same to bump it up to 16 yards, which came out to around $700USD at the time. I decided to do a bit extra and go with 18 yards.

Fortunately, before they actually did the custom run, they decided that they were going to start to stock certain clan tartans in Reproduction colours, starting with mine and a few others that were in the works. This meant that they would do large runs, changing to double-width cloth, and the price went way down. So by the time mine was woven, what I actually got was double-width cloth at 22GBP/yard. I ordered 9 yards worth, only 4 of which were needed for my kilt, and 5 extra yards for future projects.

So as you can see, there was quite a difference in price in the same tartan, depending on whether it was single-width custom runs (depending on how many yards they'd have to make), or double-width stock cloth (that they could make in large quantity). 30GBP/yard for single-width custom cloth (small run) versus 22 GBP/yard for double-width stock cloth is quite a difference. If you need help with the math, it means the single-width custom cloth was 2.72 times as much as the double-width stock cloth, based on equal square footage.

This is, of course, due to the incredible amount of time it takes them to set up the equipment for each run and get it going smoothly. I have no doubt that the pricing was as fair and honest as they could get it, and I was still willing to pay for the single-width custom cloth if it had been the only option available to me (which it was when I started the process). It was just good luck and good timing that they opted to make it a stock cloth when I placed the order.

We had the cloth sent directly to Barb T. for the kiltmaking process. She had warned me about getting hit with import duties, and I was prepared for it. Fortunately, that did not happen. It still amazes me that the system operates this way, where it's not equally applied, and just happens to run on dumb luck as to whether you get hit with a big bill to the government. But for whatever reason, fate was smiling on me. My 9 yards of double-width cloth at 22GBP/yard only cost me a true 198GBP, which was 440USD. Again, this was several years ago. By today's exchange rate it would only be a smidge over $300.

And that's an important lesson too. Exchange rates make all the difference in price. If you can be patient, even for several years, wait until exchange rates are favourable to you!

**CameronCat** · 19th May 15, 01:17 PM

Interesting thread and thanks for starting it.

Side question for Barb and any others with the knowledge: do the weaving (and dyeing) companies use or recognize the Pantone color scales and IDs? It would seem that using them could eliminate a lot of color
discussions during planning, i.e. "please match Pantone 17-0627" instead of "sort of a yellow-y olive but not too flat."

Pantone does have a separate catalog for "Fashion and Home" including references for dyed cotton.

Just wondering, and thanks!

**Barb T** · 19th May 15, 01:19 PM

I've never been offered that as an option, but, then again, I've never asked for a custom dyed thread color. I've always worked with the stock colors that a weaver offers.

**figheadair** · 19th May 15, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by CameronCat

Interesting thread and thanks for starting it.

Side question for Barb and any others with the knowledge: do the weaving (and dyeing) companies use or recognize the Pantone color scales and IDs? It would seem that using them could eliminate a lot of color
discussions during planning, i.e. "please match Pantone 17-0627" instead of "sort of a yellow-y olive but not too flat."

Pantone does have a separate catalog for "Fashion and Home" including references for dyed cotton.

Just wondering, and thanks!

No, the weaving and dyeing companies don't seem to use Pantone references. It would indeed make like so much easier if they did.