Dipping flags at ceremonies

[Peter Crowe]

No.
Much as I respect the Union Jack and things it stands for such as our Queen, our shared islands and our shared military, I certainly do NOT consider it to be the national flag of my country Scotland.
As I have already said I am proud to fly the Union Jack when I'm over the border at the air museum in England.
Sadly the Union Jack has become tainted in Scotland by its mis-appropriation as the flag of a certain soccer club and by religious bigotry which is why I would never raise it in Scotland.

Without in any way being political this is sadly also my experience with what is properly the Queen's Colour. Misappropriated and politicised by certain individuals and groups with a sectarian agenda within Scotland.

[416 Rigby]

To clarify previous comments about ceremonies here in the USA, the US national ensign is never dipped.

[Downunder Kilt]

To clarify previous comments about ceremonies here in the USA, the US national ensign is never dipped.

I really think you should say,never dipped first.

[Pleater]

I thought that the Queen's colour was a flag belonging to a regiment or a branch of the armed forces, showing battle honours of with emblems of its own. We get to watch the trooping of the colour of TV on the Queens (Official) birthday parade each June, on the TV.

flags can be a bit of a minefield.

The monarch has the royal standards, one of which is flown wherever she is in residence at the time, on the car she is travelling in, and always over Westminster Abbey. The one at the abbey is the English one - there are different ones for Scotland and for Commonwealth countries. The English one has two sets of the triple English leopards, the Scottish lion rampant and the Irish harp. The Scottish one has two lions rampant, the English triple leopards and the Irish harp.

It used to be that when the Queen was not in Buckingham palace neither the standard nor the Union Flag was flown, the flagpoles were empty. It was the death of HRH Princess Diana which altered that, the Union Flag was flown at half mast for the funeral and again on the anniversary of her death, but it is now flown fairly regularly such as at the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, again at half mast.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[cookingkilted]

As a former Airman, I know for a fact the American flag is to never be dipped. The Scottish National flag I would say should stay upright as well. Though I have noticed during the Olympics opening ceremony, when they do the parade of nations every country but the USA dips their flag. So it could be argued either way.

[Downunder Kilt]

Bet someone got their buttocks kicked after this performance

[Peter Crowe]

I thought that the Queen's colour was a flag belonging to a regiment or a branch of the armed forces, showing battle honours of with emblems of its own. We get to watch the trooping of the colour of TV on the Queens (Official) birthday parade each June, on the TV.


Anne the Pleater :ootd:

The Colour that is displayed during the Trooping of the Colour ceremony is the 'Regimental Colour' of whatever Regiment of Foot Guards (Grenadiers, Coldstreams, Scots, Irish, and Welsh) whose Colour is being Trooped.

The Queen's (King's) Colour is the Union Flag distinct from the Royal Standard which is their personal Arms in Flag form. It is because it is a combination of the Union(s) that the Crosses of St. George, St. Andrew, and St. Patrick may be flown in it's place although when both are flown together the Union Flag takes precedence. England, Scotland, and Ireland being the antecedent kingdoms that make up today's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (formerly all of Ireland before 1921). Wales being a Principality was subsumed into England unilaterally (a matter of historical record and not a judgement upon Wales' ancient nationhood or people whom I respect greatly). The legal status of the flags on land is uncertain as they are not creatures of statute but of customary usage. The Union Flag adopted semi-officially in 1707 was with some variations unofficially used by English 'men o' war' since the Regal Union of 1603.

England + Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain in 1707
Great Britain + Ireland = United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801
Great Britain and Ireland - 26 Counties comprising the then Irish Free State (formally Ireland since 1937) in 1921 although unchanged officially until 1927 = United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Complicated I know but this is my understanding on the subject based on fairly wide reading of British Constitutional, Political, and Military History. I believe Jock Scot served as an Officer in the Household Division and can correct me if I am wrong.

[Jock Scot]

Anne is so right, flags can indeed be a bit of a minefield. I was listening to a RSM, many years ago "instructing" a group of Cadets on the use of flags carried in a parade. It went something like this: " Flags are almost more trouble than they are worth. Four things to remember at all times. One, when a National Anthem is played lower(dip) the flag, Two, the White Ensign(Royal Navy)should never be flown from anything other than Admiralty property. Three, The American flag is never lowered(dipped) except in particular and exceptional circumstance. Four, when in doubt, all flags ----apart from the American National flag ------will be dipped when a National Anthem is played and at the sounding of the last post." I think he covered the situation well, from a British perspective and the point that he was making was, even if someone got it wrong(perish the thought, the poor fellow could be peeling spuds for a month!) an effort was made to do the right thing.

I understand that American ships when passing another will dip their pennant after a foreign ship has dipped theirs, so even with American flags they do have exceptions to the basic rule. Damn and blast it, there we are back in that wretched minefield again!

I cannot help but smile at the more recent general Scottish huffing and puffing about the Union Flag, it was after all a Scottish King, James V1, who in 1606 introduced the basic idea of a union flag in the first place. I grant you it was not altogether popular with everyone and has been amended and adjusted a few times since, nevertheless I personally cannot fault his thinking of coming up with an inclusive flag.

[416 Rigby]

Downunder,
Not sure what you mean, did I miss something?

[Downunder Kilt]

Downunder,
Not sure what you mean, did I miss something?

US Ships will dip the ensign to return a salute from another vessel