Highland Regiments trivia thread.

[macwilkin]

Macwilkin, I think I must say mea culpa. I seem to have gotten a couple of stories mixed up.

The relationship of the Black Watch to the artillery has to do not with their spats but the red hackle. The Black Watch was awarded the red hackle after recovering guns that had been abandoned by the 11th Light Dragoons at the Battle of Geldermalsen in 1795.

But I also have some vague recollection of a story about the Black Watch loosing the front of the spats after being disgraced in battle ...and I seem to remember it being during the Crimea. Can anyone help with that one?

Farwell's "Mr. Kipling's Army" tells the story about a regiment wanting to start a row with the Black Watch calling for a pint of "Broken Square" around the Jocks in a pub in reference to when Fuzzy-Wuzzies (cue Lance Corporal Jones) broke the square at Tamai in 1882. This sort of thing was referenced in Kipling's poem "Belts":

There was a row in Silver Street -- the regiments was out,
They called us "Delhi Rebels", an' we answered "Threes about!"
That drew them like a hornet's nest -- we met them good an' large,
The English at the double an' the Irish at the charge.

T.

[plaid preacher]

Farwell's "Mr. Kipling's Army" tells the story about a regiment wanting to start a row with the Black Watch calling for a pint of "Broken Square" around the Jocks in a pub in reference to when Fuzzy-Wuzzies (cue Lance Corporal Jones) broke the square at Tamai in 1882. This sort of thing was referenced in Kipling's poem "Belts":

There was a row in Silver Street -- the regiments was out,
They called us "Delhi Rebels", an' we answered "Threes about!"
That drew them like a hornet's nest -- we met them good an' large,
The English at the double an' the Irish at the charge.

T.

Aye, macwilkin, that seems the be the story ... although there was some question as to exactly which battle. But there is also the second half, that the point was awarded to the regiment because it has subsequently acquitted itself well in battle ... except it was added to the back rather than the front.

[Orvis]

I don't believe anybody has taken up the trivia challenge about pioneers' marks of distinction, so I'll try that one.

In the British Army, each regiment of foot had a squad of pioneers to act as basic military engineers - cut down obstacles, etc, ahead of the regiments movements. They originated in the 18th century, I think. Then, their marks of distinction were a bibbed leather apron and a pioneer "cap" (similar to a grenadier cap, but much shorter and with a distinctive front-plate), as well as the axes, saws and shovels they carried (in addition to their muskets, bayonets and cartridge boxes). In the 19th c., pioneers continued to wear leather aprons and carry their tools, and were distinguished by being allowed to wear beards, in addition carrying their other distinct accoutrements - enlisted men in the Army were not then allowed chin hair, although their sideburns and moustaches were sometimes almost indistinguishable.

I have seen Canada's Fort Henry Guard (portraying British soldiers of 1867) perform, and they have a couple of pioneers who appear on parade. They carry axes at the slope and perform the manual exercise with them - present arms, port arms, order arms - in a very distinctive manner.

I cannot remember when pioneers were removed from regimental establishments, and it may be that some regiments still have ceremonial pioneers on parade as a remembrance. Perhaps one of you British Army experts can ellucidate me...

[plaid preacher]

I don't believe anybody has taken up the trivia challenge about pioneers' marks of distinction, so I'll try that one.

In the British Army, each regiment of foot had a squad of pioneers to act as basic military engineers - cut down obstacles, etc, ahead of the regiments movements. They originated in the 18th century, I think. Then, their marks of distinction were a bibbed leather apron and a pioneer "cap" (similar to a grenadier cap, but much shorter and with a distinctive front-plate), as well as the axes, saws and shovels they carried (in addition to their muskets, bayonets and cartridge boxes). In the 19th c., pioneers continued to wear leather aprons and carry their tools, and were distinguished by being allowed to wear beards, in addition carrying their other distinct accoutrements - enlisted men in the Army were not then allowed chin hair, although their sideburns and moustaches were sometimes almost indistinguishable.

I have seen Canada's Fort Henry Guard (portraying British soldiers of 1867) perform, and they have a couple of pioneers who appear on parade. They carry axes at the slope and perform the manual exercise with them - present arms, port arms, order arms - in a very distinctive manner.

I cannot remember when pioneers were removed from regimental establishments, and it may be that some regiments still have ceremonial pioneers on parade as a remembrance. Perhaps one of you British Army experts can ellucidate me...

Actually, Orvis, the battalions of the Canadian Forces still maintain a platoon of pioneers. While they don't carry axes, save for while on full- dress parade, they are still trained in construction and destruction, and play an integral role in the unit; and still are the only infanteers allowed to have a beard without a medical chit.

[Steve Ashton]

As this is a general trivia thread and not about kilts specifically I think moving it to the Misc. forum where the other games are makes sense.

[Dale-of-Cedars]

We had a retired Pioneer [correction - Frontiersman] assisting with training at our engineers cadet corps in the 1970s, wonderful man with beard and waxed moustache. I do remember his dress uniform had chain-mail epaulettes.

[Steve Ashton]

The Frontiersmen also wear chain mail epaulets.

[Dale-of-Cedars]

The Frontiersmen also wear chain mail epaulets.

Thank you Steve, I needed that mental nudge and stand corrected, he WAS a Frontiersman.

[OC Richard]

Seems to me that most of this thread hasn't been about Highland regiments.... oh well...