Dipping flags at ceremonies

[416 Rigby]

Yes, you're correct, Downunder. International naval custom dictates the ships rendering honors while underway, but this discussion is about ceremonies on land, where the national is never dipped.

My first 2 years in the military were spent in the Presidential Honor Guard in Washington, DC, and I can't for the life of me remember how the national ensign of a visiting foreign dignitary was handled during a ceremony. I'm pretty sure it was carried by itself by the Army, so I have no first hand experience with it. That was long ago.

[ctbuchanan]

US Navy Regulations, Chapter 12, section 1263:

"1. When any vessel, under United States registry or the registry of a nation formally recognized by the Government of the United States, salutes a ship of the Navy by dipping her ensign, it shall be answered dip for dip. If not already being displayed, the national ensign shall be hoisted for the purpose of answering the dip. An ensign being displayed at half-mast shall be hoisted to the truck or peak before a dip is answered.
2. No ship of the Navy shall dip the national ensign unless in return for such compliment.
3. Of the colors carried by a naval force on shore, only the battalion or regimental colors shall be dipped in renderiag or acknowledging a salute.
4. Submarines, or other ships of the line in which it would be considered hazardous for
personnel to do so, shall not be required to dip the ensign."​

[Downunder Kilt]

Yes, you're correct, Downunder. International naval custom dictates the ships rendering honors while underway, but this discussion is about ceremonies on land, where the national is never dipped.

My first 2 years in the military were spent in the Presidential Honor Guard in Washington, DC, and I can't for the life of me remember how the national ensign of a visiting foreign dignitary was handled during a ceremony. I'm pretty sure it was carried by itself by the Army, so I have no first hand experience with it. That was long ago.

Sorry Rigby, you were the one who mentioned ensigns which are usually assocciated with naval vessels, hence my post. Cheers

[416 Rigby]

Yeah what is it they say about being 2 countries separated by the same language?

Have a good day, sir!

[Downunder Kilt]

May I ask those that make ebsolute statements. like. the US flag is never dipped to be absolutely sure of their facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08chapel.html?_r=0

[ctbuchanan]

May I ask those that make ebsolute statements. like. the US flag is never dipped to be absolutely sure of their facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08chapel.html?_r=0

There is a subtle, but distinct difference between "is never dipped" and "should never be dipped". In reading the article there are several clear references to the fact that this is outside the bounds of proper flag etiquette and has raised a number of concerns on many levels. They dip the flag but clearly should not.

[cessna152towser]

Pleater wrote:-

England is a country. I am English by birth but my nationality is British. Where I am from is Yorkshire.

Yes.
One of those quirks of the British Isles where our outlook differs from person to person.
I am Scottish by birth. I live in Scotland near the English border. I drive a car which is registered in an English city. For big city shopping I regularly cross the border into England. I volunteer two days a month at an English museum. When I travel by air I depart from an English airport. If someone calls me British, then that is an appropriate description as I was born in the British Isles. But I would firmly define my Nationality as Scottish rather than British.

[Father Bill]

We experience some of that here in Canada too. Most people in my province of Ontario would identify themselves as "Canadian" while many in other provinces, particularly our French language enclave of Quebec would identify first by the province in which they live.

[Bill aka Mole]

With regard to the OP, my opinion would be that the Saltire, being a country's flag, should not be dipped at the service unless some guidance was presented stating that it should be for the occasion.