Irish accoutrements

[OC Richard]

Thanks! It's cool that 40+ years of obsession about this stuff can be of use to somebody!

About Irish accoutrements, I saw this sporran on Ebay, which I think looks really cool, and you can't beat the price

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KILT-SPORRAN...cAAOSwD0lUkt7y

Here's the photo from the listing... I love the detail on that harp!



I think it's important to realise that traditional Goidelic costume was at one time a single stream, more or less, which existed both in Gaelic Scotland and in Ireland. The dress looked, as far as we know, the way it does in that illustration above. It consisted of a long shirt (often worn hitched up to the knee) usually dyed with saffron called leine, a short jacket called ionar, and a mantle (often called a rug or cloak by early observers) called brat, a colourful woven girdle crois, and moccasins pamputai.

But English incursions exterminated this traditional costume in Ireland. Only on the Aran islands did elements survive into modern times, the crios and the pamputai. It is thought that the brat evolved into a cloak in Ireland.

In the Highlands this ancient dress lived and thrived, however it became the fashion to wrap the mantle around the waist. This of course became the kilt in time. Heavy woolen socks (which aren't seen in ancient Irish dress AFAIK) became standard wear with this dress.

The late 19th century Irish Revivalists, seeking to return to their Goidelic roots, had to face the fact that traditional Irish costume had been extinct for several hundred years, so they looked to the old paintings. Seeing the skirtlike bottom of the saffron shirt they thought it a kilt by false analogy and incomplete understanding, and the Irish Saffron Kilt was born. It now has over a century of use.

[S.S.Muldoon]

The late 19th century Irish Revivalists, seeking to return to their Goidelic roots, had to face the fact that traditional Irish costume had been extinct for several hundred years, so they looked to the old paintings. Seeing the skirtlike bottom of the saffron shirt they thought it a kilt by false analogy and incomplete understanding, and the Irish Saffron Kilt was born

I don't believe this to be entirely true... It is my understanding that Douglas Hyde and the other founders of the Gaelic League were well aware that they were borrowing the kilt directly from the Highlanders, with whom the GL felt they had great cultural affinity. In the absence of a "Native Irish Dress" that would be recognizable in modern times, I believe they chose to try to adopt the most iconic piece of clothing associated with a modern Gaelic people.

I've heard lots of people of Irish heritage claim that the kilt was an old Irish garment, but I don't think the scholars that tried to popularize the modern Irish version of the kilt were laboring under that misconception.

[RectaPete]

Well, whatever the origin of the Irish kilt I want to see more Irish wearing them. Even if it's just for a wedding or a football match, wearing a kilt is distinctively "Celtic" and enhances national pride.

[OC Richard]

I don't believe this to be entirely true... It is my understanding that Douglas Hyde and the other founders of the Gaelic League were well aware that they were borrowing the kilt directly from the Highlanders, with whom the GL felt they had great cultural affinity. In the absence of a "Native Irish Dress" that would be recognizable in modern times, I believe they chose to try to adopt the most iconic piece of clothing associated with a modern Gaelic people.

For sure that's what ended up happening, the wearing of ordinary modern Scottish Highland kilts.

But if you see some of the early Irish Revival kilts, they don't look like Scottish kilts at all, but thin fabric skirts gathered or pleated all around, quite obviously derived from the bottom of the old saffron leine.

Note the big sleeves and gathers/pleats all around, the costume an attempt at recreating the look of the old images.



Here you can see the embroidery such as is seen on the ionair in the old images (though the originals weren't Celtic knotwork)

[RectaPete]

For sure that's what ended up happening, the wearing of ordinary modern Scottish Highland kilts.

But if you see some of the early Irish Revival kilts, they don't look like Scottish kilts at all, but thin fabric skirts gathered or pleated all around, quite obviously derived from the bottom of the old saffron leine.

Note the big sleeves and gathers/pleats all around, the costume at attempt at recreating the look of the old images.



Here you can see the embroidery such as is seen on the ionair in the old images (though the originals weren't Celtic knotwork)

Would love to see this sort of dress make a comeback. Undeniably Celtic, distinctively Irish.

[John_Carrick]

Post deleted.

[OC Richard]

Would love to see this sort of dress make a comeback.

It's seen all the time at our local Renaissance Faire. The dress of many of those people is painstakingly accurate.

But as far as day-to-day dress, I don't think that's going to happen.

Here's a quite careful copy of the dress seen in that old watercolour. Note that Celtic interlace decoration didn't seem to be popular at that time.

[RectaPete]

It's seen all the time at our local Renaissance Faire. The dress of many of those people is painstakingly accurate.

But as far as day-to-day dress, I don't think that's going to happen.

Here's a quite careful copy of the dress seen in that old watercolour. Note that Celtic interlace decoration didn't seem to be popular at that time.

I wasn't talking about going full ren faire, I was referring to the jacket with either a fully pleated or Highland-style kilt. Would help to distinguish it from Scottish wear- something I've noticed a lot of Americans have trouble with!