which bonnet

[Jock Scot]

Jock, maybe "official" would be a better word than formal, since, as Tarheel says, they are more often seen on the heads of pipers and military personnel.

Well yes, but as we are dressing in civilian attire and most of us are neither Military or pipers, why is one bonnet more formal than the other? Are we discussing an American interpretation of reality here? I only ask out of interest, as it seems to me that many interpretations of what happens in Scotland and America differ so, such as St Andrews Day, St Patricks Day, Kirkin the Tartan, Tartan Day and on smaller scale, dirks being worn at weddings, various ceremonies at weddings, that seem such a big deal over there and is often a non event over here?

[Tarheel]

As the side discussion between Jock, Douglas and me pertains to Phil's choice, the Glengarry gives the sense of leadership (as a guide for the groups) where a balmoral may make him appear as "one of the guys". Either hat would have worked, because I expect no other visitor was donning that style of headwear. That would be for Phil to clarify.
The ensemble works and will be remembered along with the tour's other attractions.

[Jock Scot]

Where did that idea come from? I really fail to grasp that one bonnet is "superior" from the other. Yes, I quite understand and accept a personal choice but not anything else.

[Dughlas mor]

Well yes, but as we are dressing in civilian attire and most of us are neither Military or pipers, why is one bonnet more formal than the other? Are we discussing an American interpretation of reality here? I only ask out of interest, as it seems to me that many interpretations of what happens in Scotland and America differ so, such as St Andrews Day, St Patricks Day, Kirkin the Tartan, Tartan Day and on smaller scale, dirks being worn at weddings, various ceremonies at weddings, that seem such a big deal over there and is often a non event over here?

I suppose we are discussing my perception of the connotations of a Glengarry vs. a Balmoral, here in the Northwest of the USA, a long way from the Highlands. If you are suggesting that there is no difference in formality between the two, I am perfectly willing to take your word for it. As for Saints days, Tartan day, etcetera, I am much more of a non event guy.

[sailortats]

[QUOTE Either hat would have worked, because I expect no other visitor was donning that style of headwear. That would be for Phil to clarify.

I went with the Glengarry instead of the Balmoral as personal preference. I feel the Glen appears a little more dignified with the PC.

And it is correct that no one else was wearing a Glengarry, or for that matter a Balmoral, but there were a couple of French Berets present. The night turned out to be very comfortable temperaturewise, 60 degrees F.

[sailortats]

This picture has just popped up on my Facebook page. I will use it as justification for my choosing the Glengarry to wear with the PC.

Lord Archibald Campbell

[OC Richard]

1901 style clothing... I have been asked to be in full formal kilt wear with PC jacket

Late to this thread, but I don't think the Prince Charlie Coatee existed at that time. In the 1920s it was being spoken of as a quite recent thing.

The formal jacket would have been the Doublet, which we call the Regulation Doublet today. It was by far the most common Highland formal jacket from the mid-19th century up through the 1920s when it was supplanted by a number of new Evening jacket styles (Prince Charlie Coatee, Kenmore Doublet, Montrose Doublet, Sheriffmuir Doublet). The old Doublet was afterwards regarded as oldfashioned.

This is not a criticism directed at you or anyone else in particular, but I can't help but notice how frequently here in the USA functions which are set in various time periods of the past are attended by people in modern Highland Dress, as if Highland Dress exists in a strange timeless world not connected to the progression of time in the Real World.

Examples are Dickens Balls, Civil War Balls, Colonial Balls, and so forth, inevitably attended by men wearing Highland Dress all or in part of the style which didn't appear until around 1920.

Anyhow here's a c1900 outfit with the fashionable high collar and long tie. Yes I know this guy is a piper, but the only thing that you wouldn't see on a non-piper's outfit are the wings on the shoulders of the doublet.

It was very popular at this time for doublets to have trim as you see here. Long hair sporrans were universally worn. Glengarries were very popular amongst civilians, both pipers and non-pipers. Balmorals became all the rage in the 1930s through the 1970s, Glengarries then being relegated to the military, mostly. Before around 1930 this was not the case, with Glengarries and Balmorals being equally popular in civilian dress.



Here are a number of kilted people in 1909. Note the trimmed doublets, long hair sporrans, etc. Yes the guy in the middle is a piper, the others are not, and all are dressed in the style of the period. Twenty years later this sort of dress would be regarded as hopelessly out of date, twenty or thirty years earlier and the doublets would probably all be plain.

In the centre group of three note that only the piper is wearing a Glengarry, and that the piper's sporran isn't a long hair one, but a large short-fur one. In the group of three to the left note the guy in the Day Dress of the period.

[Mike_Oettle]

While Phil’s question has been thoroughly answered both by experts including Jock Scot and by Phil himself, I thought I would add a note about the formality of bonnets.
A lot of discussion has centred on whether a glengarry is more formal than a tam o’shanter or a balmoral, but little mention has been made of the style of the particular bonnets.
Both glens and balmorals can be purchased with dicing or without, whereas tams rarely have dicing. (At the same time, I know of no law forbidding it.)
To my mind a diced bonnet is more formal, whereas a plain-coloured one is less so.
I certainly regard my own tam (in bottle green) as being relatively informal, although I would not be ashamed of wearing it (out of doors, that is) in any company.
I have no plans to acquire a diced bonnet in any form, although I may at some point purchase a Clan Claus bonnet.
I do plan to purchase a royal blue balmoral which, largely because it will be new, alongside my tam which has lost some of its colour, will be smarter, but there would be little difference in the degree of formality.

[OC Richard]

Both in The Highlanders Of Scotland (1860s) and in the large collection of vintage photos I've amassed it can be seen that throughout the second half of the 19th century and well into the 20th nearly all the bonnets, both Balmorals and Glengarries, worn by civilians are plain.

Dicing was mostly confined to the military, and not all of them: two of the five post-1809 kilted Highland regiments wore plain Glengarries (The Black Watch and the Cameron Highlanders).

[LANCER1562]

Phil,
My wife and I really like the outfit you wore for the evening. The Glengarry looks great with the Prince Charlie. We were wondering what tartan your kilt and fly plaid are.