White Cockade?

[Peter Crowe]

I would completely agree.

While we are on the subject I would be grateful for Jock’s comments on something relevant.

The persecution of the Highlands after 1745 is often spoken of simply as the English persecuting the Scots. Surely that’s only partly true? It was a small part of Scotland being persecuted by the rest of the UK, including the rest of the Scots.

One of the most distinguishing features of Scottishness since the days of John Knox was their Presbyterian religion, which had wide spread grass roots support and by C17 standards a democratic structure. This was why the Scots opposed the Stuarts from Mary Queen of Scots to James VII, who were both catholic. The Highlands by contrast had never been Presbyterian. The Jacobites were a threat to that religious settlement.

I hope I can say without controversy that the treatment of the Highlands after Culloden was wicked and as an Englishman I am deeply ashamed. I am not trying to white wash the English.

I agree with this, although I would add one caveat, that support for Jacobitism did not break down on strictly Highland/Lowland lines. There were North Eastern Episcopalians (culturally and geographically Lowland) who were Jacobite, and there were Highland Clans (and not just the House of MacCailein Mòr) even then who were Presbyterian and supported Hanover. Some Clans also backed Charles Edward Stuart for non-ideological or non-religious reasons, as they resented the power of Clan Campbell and believed a Stuart restoration would increase their relative power and prestige.

[merovingian]

I'm not attempting to excuse my ignorance or cursory knowledge of these topics, but being raised in California and having family that left Scotland right about 1746 (as they has fought for the losing side in that conflict), I wasn't raised being exposed to much Scottish or European history, unless it involved a war the US/ Americas took part in. I do however attempt to learn and pursue knowledge on the subject, as it doest relate to my ancestry. I have read quite a few articles, watched the History of Scotland series a couple times, several other documentaries, etc – my point being that I would like to think I'm not guilty of taking my knowledge of Scottish history solely from Braveheart. I am also interested in learning more and studying several aspects of Scottish history and I have very much enjoyed the comments in this thread. Bottom line I guess is – I'm here to learn and don't claim to be an expert.

[merovingian]

Unsurprisingly, this topic has come up before...

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...cockade-65644/

Obviously I meant to type NOTHING new in the world… I really need to proof read my posts before submitting :/

[JonathanB]

Merovingian – I’m sorry if I seemed to put you down. I’ve realised on this thread how much I also don’t know.

You might like to look at Walter Scott’s novel Waverley, a story of the 45 with a young Englishman caught up fighting for the Jacobites.

Before Waverley, Jacobites were often regarded as uncivilised terrorists. After Scott they were gallant, romantic and tragic. The major railway station in Edinburgh is named after the novel.

Scott’s prose is heavy going, but just skip the stodgy bits. It’s what Scott expected.

[MacRob]

The white cockade, as a symbol of support for the Stuarts, was an insignia, like any other, to enable one to differentiate between friend and foe. Early in my "Highland Career" I wore one all the time but that was before careful analysis convinced me that the cause of Jacobitism was not worth the blood shed for it. I still have my cockade and a bonnet which came equipped with one but scarcely ever wear either. Not many folks, outside re-enactors, wear it these days but there is no harm in doing so. In thirty-five years of attending Highland games I have never seen a Hanoverian and Jacobite go at it seriously with sword and targe and would not expect to. Do what makes you happy but the white cockade, while it appeared occasionally during the run up to the independence vote, was not a symbol of that movement. I will say that the Jacobites, in the highlands of Scotland, probably had independence in the back of their minds but if the Stuarts had succeeded in returning to the throne and their supporters in Scotland attempted to separate, they would have been slapped down as quickly by the Stuarts as they were by the House of Hanover.

[JonathanB]

A persecuted Scottish body who I’d have thought could be seen as anti-establishment and nationalist were the Covenanters. They are the opposite of the Jacobites in many ways. Whereas the Jacobites typically were Highlanders, catholic and feudal, the Covenanters were from the South West of Scotland, fiercely protestant and populist.

They figure in Scott’s Old Mortality and were aggressively persecuted under Charles II, ie under a Stuart monarch.

[Father Bill]

Really proud of my fellow XMarkers - keeping it historical rather than political or religious!

[merovingian]

Merovingian – I’m sorry if I seemed to put you down. I’ve realised on this thread how much I also don’t know.

You might like to look at Walter Scott’s novel Waverley, a story of the 45 with a young Englishman caught up fighting for the Jacobites.

Before Waverley, Jacobites were often regarded as uncivilised terrorists. After Scott they were gallant, romantic and tragic. The major railway station in Edinburgh is named after the novel.

Scott’s prose is heavy going, but just skip the stodgy bits. It’s what Scott expected.

Yes, I'm planing to read Scott soon. One of the areas I have intense interest in is the cultural psyche of 1700s and 1800s Scotland that eagerly embraced romanticized origins of everything from Freemasonry (Knights Templar via Bannockburn) to the tartans (Vestiarium Scoticum via Bonnie Prince Charlie himself). It seems the tendency to embrace mythological or romanticized origins of many valued cultural themes was pervasive and peaked with Ivanoe and the fascination with medieval romanic chivalry. Again, I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, just en enthusiastic student in search of knowledge.

[JonathanB]

You almost certainly know more about all this in terms of cultural theory, but I can claim to have read all the novels of Walter Scott, albeit in the spirit of watching crummy old movies.

His most worthwhile novels are those he wrote prior to Ivanhoe. They are all set in Scotland and deal with the results of the struggles of the English Civil War, including the Jacobite rising, in other words the political movements that had shaped the Scotland of his own day. The two I mentioned are probably the most worthwhile along with Rob Roy and The Heart of Midlothian.

Of the later works the only ones I’d recommend are Redgauntlet and the long short story The Highland Widow. The last one is the only work by Scott which deals with the Highlands post-Culloden. Scott can be seriously criticised for air brushing out of history the appalling nature of the persecution. The nearest he comes to doing so is in ​The Highland Widow.

[JonathanB]

Here I am in a suitably Gothic setting wearing a Scott Hunting Ancient kilt.