US Veterans, militaria, etc...

[Geoff Withnell]

That's the org. I see and think it a bit ridiculous.

Why would you wear all of your decorations with a kilt in casual wear? What is the connection?

If you took the kilt off and put on pants you'd look foolish unless at a memorial etc.

Yes, they are your awards (altho I wonder when I see them improperly stacked on some gents) but the display at a highland game or festival is to what purpose?

If you want to do a veteran Scots heritage gig then an appropriate patch or something...but full dress award regalia?

Looks silly to me.

Members of SAMS wear our ribbons when we are in the SAMS uniform because that is part of the uniform. At many games or festivals, the SAMS members you see are spending at least part of their day manning the SAMS tent, so being in uniform is appropriate. And IIRC, I wore full ribbons on the short sleeve tropical uniform while in the USMC, so full ribbons on the SAMS equivalent is not all that out of place. I am sorry if it seems silly to you.

[davidlpope]

I wear miniature medals for black tie events when everyone else will be wearing them.

I don't wear any other military ribbons, pins, medals, dewdads, geegaws, etc.

I do have several ties which feature subtle EGAs that I wear sometimes with my kilt, since there is not an official USMC necktie.

I think this is a case where less is more and it's better to be subtle. Otherwise, it seems that you're intentionally trying to draw attention to yourself, which is just plain tacky.

[Reiver]

Sir William,
I went to the SAMS website to see if I can get a handle on this phenomena.

From the history section it says basically that some guys were walking around in kilts/medals and noticed each other...they got together and made an organization so they could...walk around in kilts with medals on.

I understand veteran organizations but fail to see a military link with the kilt allowing for that display.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but I find it ostentatious to say the least.

BTW, I'm sure the org. does some very good deeds...scholarship/citizenship related etc.
I appreciate that.

[Sir William]

Sir William,
I went to the SAMS website to see if I can get a handle on this phenomena.

From the history section it says basically that some guys were walking around in kilts/medals and noticed each other...they got together and made an organization so they could...walk around in kilts with medals on.

I understand veteran organizations but fail to see a military link with the kilt allowing for that display.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but I find it ostentatious to say the least.

BTW, I'm sure the org. does some very good deeds...scholarship/citizenship related etc.
I appreciate that.

First off, SAMS has been around for about 30 years, so it is not a phenomena or a fad.

Perhaps the phenomena is that when someone puts on a kilt they feel the need to add military accoutrement: ribbons, badges, patches, swords, dirks, flintlock pistols, etc. I suspect the martial history of various Scottish regiments has something to do with it.

SAMS was founded as a veterans' organization, not unlike the VFW, American Legion, the Marine Corps League, and others, for those former, retired and current military members who have a Scottish connection. Posts and Camps are formed where sufficient members live, and each post or camp establishes it's own uniform, the only consistency of which is that a kilt is worn.

Most SAMS posts and camps provide color guards at Scottish Games (Celtic Festivals, etc), perform memorial ceremonies on Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, etc, (my local post does a lot of ceremonies in the DC area on these days). My post is also heavily engaged in Wounded Warrior, Honor Flight, and Quilts of Valor. As you noted, they are also engaged in recognizing and encouraging scholarship and leadership.

SAMS may not be your cup of tea, but like other veteran organizations they do a lot in supporting the military and veterans. They just happen to wear a kilt, in addition to their ribbons or medals, while doing it.

[Reiver]

Ok, forward march.
Question....when the SAMS gents posted the colors at our Highland games in Phoenix they also used British Regulation marching moves ....and a mix of commands.
What is that about?
BTW, looking at your coat of arms etc.....the majority of the Highland Scots in the Colonies fought for the Crown...the lowland and borderer's were primarily rebels. I suggest 'The Road to Guilford Courthouse' as an indicator of such. Covers the Scots in the Carolina's/Virginia etc.
Maybe that's why the Brit marching moves....

[Sir William]

Ok, forward march.
Question....when the SAMS gents posted the colors at our Highland games in Phoenix they also used British Regulation marching moves ....and a mix of commands.
What is that about?

Totally up the Post. Ours uses US commands.

BTW, looking at your coat of arms etc.....the majority of the Highland Scots in the Colonies fought for the Crown...the lowland and borderer's were primarily rebels. I suggest 'The Road to Guilford Courthouse' as an indicator of such. Covers the Scots in the Carolina's/Virginia etc.
Maybe that's why the Brit marching moves....

Couldn't agree more! Personally, I don't like the frontiersman emblem they use (supposed to indicate the Over Mountain men who fought at King's Mountain). I didn't design them and had no input (already being used when I joined in 1982).

[Reiver]

Right then....I'll ask the boys, next I see them (Prescott games), about the Queen's influence on their military protocol.

[Cardinal]

Perhaps we are seeing another "generation gap" here.

The generation of US military men before mine (I joined in 1983) fought in Vietnam, and was damned by society for doing so. That they would incline toward wearing their hard-won decorations often is understandable. It's their way of proudly stating that they did what they believed was right, and care not what anybody else thinks about it. A USMC Good Conduct Medal and a National Defense Service Medal from 1971 show a man who moved toward the sound of the guns instead of packing a bag and running to Canada, demonstrating more physical courage than most in his generation, even though he did not deploy to Vietnam.

My generation is blessed to have been able to stand on the shoulders of these giants, doubly so after their work on our behalf prevented our troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan from being treated the way they had been four decades earlier.

My generation's experience was different. Davidlpope, Cavalry Scout, Reiver, and I all served at a time when military service was celebrated. I've not had the privilege of meeting them, but Reiver has indicated in his posts that he was a career soldier with a couple of wars under his belt (as I was), and I'm pretty sure the others were in combat specialties before or during our current fights. For us, seeing every stateside clerk/typist celebrated as the next incarnation of Hector is disconcerting, and we tend to tuck away our awards most of the time. If I'm going to be around other military folks, I'll put on my medals when appropriate, though I tend toward Davidlpope's preference for formal military-themed events only.

For me, I also keep my service background quiet because the phonies tend to want real veterans to validate their claims. A gentleman at a SAMS booth told me some fascinating made-up tales about the 2004 Battle of Fallujah, not knowing that I got my Combat Infantryman Badge there. His elderly Vietnam-era mates were very proud to have a real Delta Force veteran in their number, and I wasn't about to hurt their feelings by telling them the truth about him, but meeting him ruined my day. Just yesterday at dinner, after my wife mentioned that I was a Ranger, a man told me in exacting detail about parachuting into Grenada as a member of a Ranger unit that in fact formed a year after the invasion. I'm sure others have similar stories.

So, we are different from the older generation of vets, just as the current generation of troops will be different from us. Some things look odd to us, but perfectly normal to the Vietnam-era folks. No offense meant, it's just not our thing.

Take us with a grain of salt, just as I hope we will do for the next batch of veterans.

[Reiver]

Cardinal,
Well said.
I served in RVN as a grunt and stuck around thru Astan so I get your observation.
I have a problem with the award display for a reason you indicated. I've found no one really 'vets' individuals and have run into so many phony's that I look askance at those that wear their decorations at a drop of the hat....looking for a place to go 'on display'.
One of the groups I belong to 'outs' posers that claim Special Forces Regiment service.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/index.php
After RVN no one 'posed' as a solder because it was unpopular but today I run into bogus hero's all the time...honestly. I've heard more BS war stories at our local Legion that I no longer attend.
There was a SAMS ind. at the last meet wearing his awards out of sequence....a simple mistake or.....
If they didn't wear an awards display...the phonies would not participate.
I've honestly met more phony SF types than real since retiring....but I do call them out and at the next Prescott games I will have a discussion with the ind. mentioned above.
I have no more patience with that.
Bit of a rant I know, but, for those that never served do not take a gents 'word' for his exploits....I've never met a combat soldier that shared harrowing tales with civilians as they don't get it anyway....we only BS, with our close mates, usually about the funny stuff unless remembering a guy gone.
If a guy is telling you about being knee deep in hand grenade pins there is a 99.99% chance he is full of it.
Rant over.

[Thekiltedmohawk]

First of all.. Thanks for your services, y'all. I'd have joined Air Force if it weren't for my deafness to continue my long family tradition of serving in the armed forces.

I always grind my teeth whenever I read how the phonies out there pretends to serve/partake in the action while they were safe behind a monitor in the same time. It's a dishonorable act, and disrespectful to our armed brothers, and sisters.

Once again.. Thanks for your services.