Vestiarium Scoticum - the tartan Pandora's box

[OC Richard]

An example of the differences in plate and text in the VS, in this case for Chisholm.

Plate (blue lines)
Attachment 27848

Text (black lines)
Attachment 27849

And in my opinion there's no reason to follow the Brother's proportions and placements, the verbal description

Chysholme hethe ain greine sett and ain red & vppone the grein set be lystis of bleu with yr sprainis of blak and in the middt vther ain of red and vpon the reid sett twa strypis of quhite

being open to an almost infinite number of variations.

For even if one accepts the VS as genuine, there's no reason to accept the Brothers' drawings as anything other than 19th century guesswork.

I did this quick and dirty Chisholm which follows the VS description as well as any, yet purposely chooses different proportions and placements

[JohntheBiker]

I always find it funny how tradition often has very mundane roots and that collective observance is more important than the romantic myth.

[IsaacW]

I always find it funny how tradition often has very mundane roots and that collective observance is more important than the romantic myth.

EXACTLY! I tried saying this early but not as precisely or as well!

It reminds me the story of the kid learning how to cook ham and his mother was teaching him to cut the one end off. He asked why and she did not know other than to say that is how she was taught. This made her wonder and she had to ask her mother. She did and the response was that her mother did not know why but that is what she was taught. Luckily, her mother (the grandmother and great-grandmother) was still alive and they all went to her to ask, why they need to cut off the end of the ham. Her response was a chuckle, followed by, "well... the pan I used to have was not big enough for the whole ham."

[Domehead]

An example of the differences in plate and text in the VS, in this case for Chisholm.

Plate (blue lines)


Text (black lines)

When I created my "VS" copy for use at the Scottish Heritage Society Tent and the Clan Donnachaidh Tent, I included every permutation of the available setts: published, textual and by thread count. I'm with Isaac W, please continue this conversation. It is fascinating and we are all learning.

[figheadair]

When I created my "VS" copy for use at the Scottish Heritage Society Tent and the Clan Donnachaidh Tent, I included every permutation of the available setts: published, textual and by thread count. I'm with Isaac W, please continue this conversation. It is fascinating and we are all learning.

I'll return to this as and when time allows. At the moment I'm working on a couple of other papers and whilst the VS is interesting, I'm much more drawn to historical setts that actually existed.

I have a fancy to do a full scale review of D W Stewart's Old & Rare and to try and track down the original specimens he cites as the basis for his silk plates. I've aleady shown that some were way off the source material; the Culloden Coat and Plaid from Culloden (the Moy Hall plaid) for example. Other setts were not nearly as old as he claimed. He might have worked with tartan but he clearly didn't understand old textiles and quite possibly was partially colour blind, something I suspect may also have affected to his son, D C, author of The Setts.

[Domehead]

I'll return to this as and when time allows. At the moment I'm working on a couple of other papers and whilst the VS is interesting, I'm much more drawn to historical setts that actually existed.

I have a fancy to do a full scale review of D W Stewart's Old & Rare and to try and track down the original specimens he cites as the basis for his silk plates. I've aleady shown that some were way off the source material; the Culloden Coat and Plaid from Culloden (the Moy Hall plaid) for example. Other setts were not nearly as old as he claimed. He might have worked with tartan but he clearly didn't understand old textiles and quite possibly was partially colour blind, something I suspect may also have affected to his son, D C, author of The Setts.

Understood and please do, Mr. MacDonald. As always, on matters concerning the "VS", I utilized the Stewart / Thompson source to sort the vagaries mentioned earlier, including their thread counts. As the plates emerged, it was interesting to see the differences side-by-side, particularly the thread counts. If I remember correctly, the "Mauchline" process standardized printing, but formulated the look, something which clearly didn't translate to the loom. Just another in a myriad of variables which lead to the "forged" history we currently exist within (bad pun intended).

Thanks and looking forward to more commentary.
Ryan M. Liddell

[AFS1970]

It reminds me the story of the kid learning how to cook ham and his mother was teaching him to cut the one end off. He asked why and she did not know other than to say that is how she was taught. This made her wonder and she had to ask her mother. She did and the response was that her mother did not know why but that is what she was taught. Luckily, her mother (the grandmother and great-grandmother) was still alive and they all went to her to ask, why they need to cut off the end of the ham. Her response was a chuckle, followed by, "well... the pan I used to have was not big enough for the whole ham."

I have also heard that as cutting one leg off the turkey because of a small oven. At the risk of hijacking a perfectly good tartan thread, I have a similar real life story. I grew up making gravy with milk, because my mother taught me to do it that way. Once at my grandmother's house my mother was making gravy like that and my Grandmother asked what the milk was for. My mother said it was for the gravy and when questioned further said it was like she had seen my grandmother do growing up. My grandmother replied that she did no such thing, she used to mix flour and water in a drinking glass so the flour did not clump up. To my mother it looked like a glass of milk.

So I can see how traditions start and sometimes stop. I can also see how they can sometimes continue without anyone having any real idea of what we are doing or why we are doing it. To a certain extent tartan is just like this. When I first joined my local St. Andrew's society I was directed to a gentleman who was everyone's guide to all things tartan and highland wear. The trouble is that as I have learned much later in life a good deal of what he told me was wildly inaccurate, including the code to decipher what certain colors meant in tartans.