Uniform specifications

[Glen48]

Hi All,

Im trying to complete my father's old uniform. SD&G Highlanders trews and blues. I need to procure a glengarry but dont exactly know the colour schemes. I found the following website that says it should be Navy with red toorie and black, red and white dicing.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/unif...lengarries.htm

Anyone know a more reliable source so I buy the correct one? Uniform dates from the 70s. Can put a pic up if interested.

Thanks
G

[OC Richard]

Unfortunately I'm on the road right now and don't have it to hand, but Barnes has a detailed list of the uniform of every British and Dominion Scottish regiment, and I'm pretty sure he lists dicing.

Many people may not be aware of it, but the civilian Glengarries and Balmorals Robert Mackie has long made have red/white/black dicing. This colour-scheme, as far as I know, isn't used for military headgear. The Seaforth and Gordon Highlanders had red/white/green dicing (on all their headgear, Glengarries, feather bonnets, etc) while Royal regiments had red/white/blue.

It's one of those little things Re-enactors often get wrong, because they get civilian-market bonnets and wear them with military uniforms.

But Territorial, Volunteer, and Dominions regiments have all sorts of unusual things, so who can say.

But yes AFAIK all military bonnets will be an extremely dark blue, with red tourie (with exceptions like the Cameronians, London Scottish, and so forth).

[Glen48]

Thanks for your response Richard. Would love to know the book youre referring to. ISBN or book title etc. Sounds like a really interesting piece of reference material.

Many thanks
G

[plaid preacher]

The Commanding Officer of the SD&G Highlanders is a member here ...retitle your enquiry and he may be able to help.

[OC Richard]

Yes that would be The Word!

Sorry "Barnes" is

The Uniforms & History of The Scottish Regiments
by Major R. Money Barnes
LONDON Seeley Service & Co. Limited
(no date but from internal evidence around 1953)

Unfortunately he just gives "Glengarry, blue with diced border".

I did find this page, which gives red/white/black as you said.

But it's doubly strange in that it gives red/white/black for all the dicings which one would, in Britain, expect to be red/white/green or red/white/blue, and beyond that giving piper's Glengarries as being plain black, while in Britain these are always blue (admittedly an extremely dark blue).

This makes me think that either 1) the maker of this page is in error or 2) the Canadian military has been acquiring Glengarries which were intended, at least in Britain, for the civilian market.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/unif...lengarries.htm

I found a number of photos online of members of the SD&GH wearing their Glengarries and for sure the colour in question appears black. But it's very common in photos for dark blue and green doublets, and dark blue Glengarries, to appear black, and to be mistakenly listed as being black, by people who haven't examined the actual things in good light.

[ThistleDown]

The Uniforms & History of The Scottish Regiments was printed by The Bowering Press, Plymouth, in 1956 for Seeley Service Limited, London.

[Dileasgubas]

It is a standard navy blue with a red tourie and red, white, black dicing. Mine is from Robert Mackie.

The cap badge should be available through the Association at http://www.glensassociation.ca/glens-kit-shop/

Hope this helps.

[OC Richard]

The Uniforms & History of The Scottish Regiments was printed by The Bowering Press, Plymouth, in 1956 for Seeley Service Limited, London.

Interesting, my copy has no date anywhere. The latest date I see mentioned in the text is 1954.

Yes it says

LONDON
Seeley Service & Co.
Limited

but it doesn't mention The Bowering Press, Plymouth.

[OC Richard]

It is a standard navy blue with a red tourie and red, white, black dicing. Mine is from Robert Mackie.

Yes that's the standard civilian-market Glengarry, which in Scotland AFAIK isn't used by the army.

Seaforths & Gordons red/white/green, Black Watch & Camerons no dicing, Argylls red/white.

[Dileasgubas]

At their peak, which was during the Second World War, the SD&G Highlanders numbered some 5,000 all ranks. Since then, that number has shrunk considerably. Authorized strength is now under 200. With the advancing age of the veterans, the ranks of the Association (former serving members and families) have followed suit. Most of the highland regiments in Canada have therefore found it more economical to purchase some items off the shelf rather than to be forced into more costly small scale custom orders. You may not be aware that until very recently, highland dress for Canadian units has been procured almost exclusively through private purchase and not provided at public expense. For that reason, it does not surprise me that much of our highland wear comes from civilian sources. Finally, although the dress regulations may state one thing, in practice, the Regiment, being a relatively poor county unit, has tended to follow the path of least economic resistance. For that reason, some elements of our dress regulations weren't worth the paper on which they were printed. As an example, the regulations call for the Regiment to wear green doublets, likely in a nod to our Fencible past; however, the last time our unit ever wore green doublets was pre-Confederation. Instead, throughout the years, the Regiment has opted for scarlet, which was more readily available. When I have questions about dress, I usually go through the museum and look at the actual items that were worn rather than turn to the regulations which may or may not have reflected reality. To make matters worse, procurement of highland uniform accoutrements has basically been left up to the CO and perhaps a small group of advisors. All of this has led to some inconsistent procurement decisions over the years. I, too, have been partly to blame for that.

Upon closer inspection, my Glengarry is in fact black, with red, white and black dicing. It is a bonnet that is readily available on the open market. I'll have to take a closer look in our museum to determine at what point in our history we changed from a navy blue bonnet to a black one. I'll do some digging next week and report back.

At a recent highland council (a gathering of the highland regiments), it was announced that going forward, all highland wear is to be provided at public expense. This was extremely good news since it has become increasingly difficult to fund our uniforms. To enable some economies of scale, we have been asked to adopt some common items of wear across the highland brigade. In the next year or so, we are therefore likely to see a common Army sporran, common lovat hose, and a common balmoral bonnet (less tourie). We decided to leave hair sporrans, diced hose and a few other items for discussions in the future. There was some discussion on Glengarries and I believe that the decision was to attempt to go to three models only: a plain one for the Black Watch, Camerons and pipers, a unique one for the Toronto Scottish, and a generic one for everyone else. The good news is that there will not be a common Army tartan.

For your general information, our kilts come from Strathmore Woollens. The tartan (MacDonnell of Glengarry, HSL pre-1815 large set) is readily available. Our hair sporrans and leather purses are generic ones available through L&M highland outfitters. Our diced hose (really nice) are from USA Kilts. The glengarries come from multiple sources (and in various degrees of quality) and our balmorals are custom made. Shoes, badges, buttons, belts, trews and many other items are all private purchase. We no longer have scarlet doublets or undress blues in the inventory but are intending to procure them with the promised public funding over the course of the next few years. We are currently seeking a reliable source for 200 pair of reasonable quality lovat hose.

In closing, please allow me to say that one of the reasons I originally subscribed to this forum was to educate myself on how things should be done, in order to assist me in making informed procurement decisions. And for that, I am extremely grateful to the XMarks community for their collective wisdom. Since part of my community responsibilities have also required me to be kilted but not in uniform, XMarkers have been invaluable in helping me do things correctly. It has been a steep learning curve, but one that has been well worth the effort. I believe that XMarks truly does set the gold standard. My sincere thanks to all.