Just because we can?

[MacGumerait]

What do I think? I think it's pretensious to think that some would even care what you think.

A kilt, in it's basic form, isn't exclusively a Scottish garment. Therefore, you aren't entitled to an exclusive judgement, no matter your assumed authority on the subject, or even to judge those who wear, even oddly, the kilt whenever they want. Or, any other garment of their choosing.

I don't choose to wear a kilt full time, although I unequivocally support another's right to do so. Even if I'm off Scottish ancestory. Additionally, I'm a piper and the Pipe Major of our local band.

I do not care for contemporary kilts. But I don't care, also, that others choose to wear them.

Maybe I just choose to mind my own business.

In my humble opinion , it's not helpful to take this approach if you disagree with someone on this forum .

[McMurdo]

Interesting thread, thanks Jock for starting it. As for me and my family, the kilt and our shared traditions are important to me as well and I do not want to see the kilt become lessened by misuse. Having said that I do have other things to worry about than what someone else chooses to wear, within reason of course. As I am a first generation Canadian my roots are closer to the surface than some so this has of course influenced my world view. You brought up Utilikilts and while they may be comfortable lets remember their history, the first Utilikilt was in fact a converted pair of cargo shorts, so really they bear little resemblance to the Scottish kilt. I am not surprised that you rarely see them in Scotland.

As Father Bill and Nathan have stated in their own words Canada is steeped in Scottish tradition, you can't swing a cat without hitting a Scot over here. I may not have been born in Scotland, but for my part I wanted to learn how to wear it correctly as it is an important part of my past. I joined this and other forums and asked questions, looked at photos asked my dad and others what they thought and went for it. In the past decade or so I have picked up a workable wardrobe and have been asked my opinion from those who were born in Scotland. So I do think this can be learned and even taught. I was recently told that a kilt shop had pointed someone in the direction of the 1 kilt 10 looks thread that Jamie and I did some years ago, a thread by an American and a Canadian by the way. For better or worse the world is changing and becoming smaller with the internet, now that may not be the biggest concern in the Highlands however Globalization is a real thing and I think in part that is why you might be seeing the kilt more often outwith Scotland.

[OC Richard]

Great point about Canadian Scottish-ness.

Though in gross numbers the USA might be comparable, I think there's a significant difference in both the relative number of Scots here, and in their time depth or immediacy.

I think I would be safe in saying that most of the USA's Scots are Ulster Scots, most a generation or two removed from the Scottish Borders when they arrived here in the second and third quarters of the 18th century.

I think only parts of North Carolina had a local Scottish Highland impact similar to, say, Cape Breton's, due to the Clearances Highlanders. I saw a map of the world's languages showing parts of North Carolina being Gaelic-speaking. I can't remember what date the map indicated, probably sometime in the 19th century.

These things are why people in the USA so often think of the 18th century when they think of Highlanders and Highland Dress, why so many Americans wear those lace-up Pirate shirts, and moccasins, and fuzzy knit bonnets, and funky leather-pouch sporrans, and the like when they attend Scottish events. Seems to me that this is more prevalent in the Southern states than elsewhere.

Here in California it's a bit different. Our population was small until the post-WWII era, when we experienced a several-fold increase, with vast numbers of people from the eastern states moving here. Who also came here was a large number of Scots. Our current Scottish scene is full of the children and grandchildren of Scots who moved here in the 1945-1965 period.

An example is an eminent piping family, began by a Scot who served in the Cameron Highlanders in WWII and came to California after the war. He founded a pipe band. His son became a winning piper, Highland dancer, and drummer, his grandson is also a top-notch piper. My first introduction to piping was through this family, so for me Scotland was never a distant misty 18th-century thing.

[ThistleDown]

My concern ... is that the kilt will no longer be something special (and) it will be cheapened by either becoming a throw away fashion item, or an item of ridicule mainly because the wearer has not got the forethought to realise that the kilt is not always the best choice for a particular event.

I don’t think we should be concerned about the kilt’s longevity as something special, Jock. I am of the same generation as you and have pretty much the same upbringing. Like you, I don’t wear a kilt every day for every occupation and venture, but I do wear it often.

We differ in that you worry the kilt will become a cheap fashion garment due to indiscriminate and inappropriate wear; I worry that it has already become a poorly assembled special ‘uniform’ for wedding parties and social events in Scotland and elsewhere.

Today’s kilt, a period garb of the Highlands and now the dress of the whole nation, is worn only for special events and in accordance with the commercial objectives of those who supply it. It is a jealously-guarded but mostly-unused and often misused national costume. I have many more friends and acquaintances who daily wear lederhosen in Southern Germany and Austria than I have who daily wear the kilt in Scotland.

The (Highland) pipes are acknowledged as the musical instrument of the nation, but are rarely taught in our schools and the best pipers and bands in the world are no longer Highland or even Scottish. Pipe band members shrug into their kilts before performances and shrug out of them as quickly as possible afterwards.

‘Highland’ dancing, once an exhibition of masculine exuberance in the Highlands, is now the province of young girls with little or no ethnic connection to or knowledge of the garment they wear.

I argue that the kilt’s problem for the future is not one of cheapness through throw-away fashion overuse, adoption by sectors of the international community, or short-term extremes outwith Scotland, but the absence of Scottish education, commitment to and support for its own cultural and social icons.

[Jock Scot]

Hmmmmmm, perhaps contributors might care to read the original post? The thread has gone way off course and whilst interesting points have been raised, they have nothing to do with the question I asked.

Alright I did briefly answer a perfectly reasonable question(post 7 & post 8) from a member about my personal thinking about general kilt matters so he could understand where I was coming from and that has perhaps led the topic away from my question. Can we please now get back to the question I have asked in post one?

To the one member who seems to have taken exception(post 26) to the answer to the question I made about my personal views, that another member asked about. My answer to him is; they are personal views and they are just as valid as anyone else's including yours even if they differ. However the unfortunate tone of that post does confirm precisely my observation that many outwith these shores are very defensive over civilian kilt wearing in general. Let us all please be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

[OC Richard]

The Highland pipes are acknowledged as the musical instrument of the nation, but are rarely taught in our schools...

I argue that the kilt’s problem for the future is...the absence of Scottish education, commitment to and support for its own cultural and social icons.

Your post has so many things I agree with. I've often heard people in the Scottish piping community lament the lack of pipe instruction in the schools.

Inveraray is the shining exception. It's astounding what can be done with some talented youngsters and world-class instruction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbikiMAjhDM

[OC Richard]

The thread has gone way off course and whilst interesting points have been raised, they have nothing to do with the question I asked.

Yes indeed. The question in question was

"Just why must some of you insist on wearing the kilt on almost every occasion you can think of when, your boss, wife, partner, host, occasion may differ and when frankly, the event dictates for many reasons, that something other than the kilt ought to be worn?"

And it re-reading it I realise that myself, not fitting the category of people being addressed, should have recused myself from the thread.

Seems to be a question for fulltime kiltwearers.

And perhaps also those who wear kilts too often; then we would have to debate what constituted "too often".

The title "just because we can" makes me think back to the morning church service I attended a number of years ago. I was hired to pipe there, and therefore was in Highland Dress, an Argyll jacket, hunting sporran, the typical piper's kit. As I've said I usually don't wear nonessential stuff like a sgian, kilt pin, belt, or pins or badges save for the Glengarry's cap badge.

There were several men who were wearing, I have no doubt, every item of Highland Dress that they owned. They were all in black Prince Charlies, with bow ties or jabots, evening sporrans, white hose, highly-laced ghillies, sgians, dirks, waistbelts visible below their waistcoats, diced Glengarries with feathers, plaids and brooches, and numerous pins and badges on their lapels.

Just because they can.

[The Q]

Your post has so many things I agree with. I've often heard people in the Scottish piping community lament the lack of pipe instruction in the schools.

Inveraray is the shining exception. It's astounding what can be done with some talented youngsters and world-class instruction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbikiMAjhDM

I think it applies to almost any country in the world that publicly funded schooling will not in any real form, teach any instruments, Pipes or otherwise. Instruments cost money (repeatedly if used in a school context) Schools are always short of money. On just the Odd occasion will a publicly funded School due to an enthusiastic Music or head teacher have any instruments taught properly.

[Thunderbolt]

Hmmmmmm, perhaps contributors might care to read the original post? The thread has gone way off course and whilst interesting points have been raised, they have nothing to do with the question I asked.

Alright I did briefly answer a perfectly reasonable question(post 7 & post 8) from a member about my personal thinking about general kilt matters so he could understand where I was coming from and that has perhaps led the topic away from my question. Can we please now get back to the question I have asked in post one?

To the one member who seems to have taken exception(post 26) to the answer to the question I made about my personal views, that another member asked about. My answer to him is; they are personal views and they are just as valid as anyone else's including yours even if they differ. However the unfortunate tone of that post does confirm precisely my observation that many outwith these shores are very defensive over civilian kilt wearing in general. Let us all please be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

My views are just as valid as yours, EVEN if they differ, agreed. But that means that neither is more correct than the other.

Your tone is interestingly British, IMHO. Which seems to be down-the-nose-with-a-stiff-upper-lip-esque. Huh. How dare I, good man, precisely?

Have you lived in America? Do you have family or ancestors that emigrated to other countries? Do your personal views take into account other countries? Maybe my very defensiveness is do to the criticism of those with no dog in the fight?

I am not going to apologize because I disagree, even if you demand others to see your point of view.

The kilt, and the wearing of, exists even "outwith" the borders of Scotland, because many Scots took their heritage with them when they left, for whichever reason, regardless of what you think is proper, or not. Who are YOU to tell my late Scottish great-grandfather who chose to wear his kilt "outwith" your cute rules? If he wasn't past, I'd dare you to tell him what is or isn't proper!

Seems to me that a proper Scot should be very proud that a fellow Scot, or distant Scot, should be proud of their heritage and ancestry to wear traditional garb. A better approach would be to gently guide others into the most correct wear, but ultimately, the choice is theirs to make.

Even if they choose to wear the pleats in the front!

T.

[MacGumerait]

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