Re: Tartan Question

**Pat Stephens** · 3rd July 16, 06:27 AM

Good day and thank you all for the replies as they are greatly appreciated!

I am in agreement with you all and do find the exercise fascinating and challenging. To reconstruct history is always fraught, yet to now add in science on top of (paleo)anthropology might be more so. I will always be a scientist and okay with both change and science's fallibility, but I do not feel science is the be-all-end-all (nothing is). Regretfully as I am more specifically looking into my mother's side, single nucleotide polymorphism results will not be shown as it's for patrilineal lineage. Maybe as the science grows so shall this.

I do feel bad that I may not be able to give my family a more concrete answer yet I will just remind them that this is the nature of these types of investigations. Along that line, I do indeed like the idea of a non-clan, more regional tartan such as for the Angus area and may suggest that to them.

Thank you all. Your experience and kindness have been very welcomed and heartily appreciated!

**Father Bill** · 3rd July 16, 06:33 AM

The whole "Clan" thing is about family, and ultimately we have two families. Nor is the Venn diagramme ever a 100% overlap.

One family is the one with whom we share DNA. The other is the people who accept us, love us, and care about us. With which family do you want to spend your time, your energies, your life?

Pax et gaudium!

**Pat Stephens** · 3rd July 16, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

The whole "Clan" thing is about family, and ultimately we have two families. Nor is the Venn diagramme ever a 100% overlap.

One family is the one with whom we share DNA. The other is the people who accept us, love us, and care about us. With which family do you want to spend your time, your energies, your life?

Pax et gaudium!

I would like to choose both families as there is always a good reason to show everyone we know and meet compassion, kindness, and love.

Peace and truth!

**EagleJCS** · 3rd July 16, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

It's enough for me and it's important to realize that this is my own perspective and I'm comfortable with it, but as my expert geneologist and historian friend said, "Bill, they didn't keep records of peasants and sadly, you qualify, but if you think with that history you're not a Sinclair, you're in la-la land," so I've thrown my lot in with the clan, consider myself a member, wear the tartan, and have been welcomed by all as a long-lost cousin... of indeterminate but never disputed lineage.

So relax. It's not as big a thing as some folks (and admittedly some clans and some clan chiefs) like to make it. In this day and age, anyone who honestly thinks they are utterly unrelated to any other given person is well deluded and self-deluded at that.

Enjoy and live a happy life with your own chosen delusions as I do.

That goes along with what I've been told. If you have the name (or a variant), you're a clansman, however long ago your ancestors departed the environs of Scotland. I'm fortunate (maybe - unrelated story there) enough to have the name of the clan as my family name (Scott), which makes clan membership somewhat easier to figure out.

However, as I've mentioned in other threads (one just recently), I've been told there are three lines of Scotts - Irish, English, and of course, Scottish - and none of the three are related. There are also Scotts that resided up around Inverness (specifically Elgin) that were not part of the Borders clan. Despite all that, our chief welcomes one and all with the name (or one of the septs/related families) who desire membership in the extended clan.

**Pat Stephens** · 5th July 16, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by EagleJCS

That goes along with what I've been told. If you have the name (or a variant), you're a clansman, however long ago your ancestors departed the environs of Scotland. I'm fortunate (maybe - unrelated story there) enough to have the name of the clan as my family name (Scott), which makes clan membership somewhat easier to figure out.

However, as I've mentioned in other threads (one just recently), I've been told there are three lines of Scotts - Irish, English, and of course, Scottish - and none of the three are related. There are also Scotts that resided up around Inverness (specifically Elgin) that were not part of the Borders clan. Despite all that, our chief welcomes one and all with the name (or one of the septs/related families) who desire membership in the extended clan.

Nice! Based on what I have researched, perhaps it is more towards my family being Irish-Scot (or is it Scots-Irish; Ulster Scot

). As my possible Northern Ireland DNA might be quite old via Geno 2.0, perhaps the Scottish lineage married in when they moved over towards the Ulster region (of which even Highland Scots were known to move to Ulster). Yet I think I will elevate this towards a professional genealogist as my family and I are still wondering.

**EagleJCS** · 5th July 16, 10:44 AM

My grandfather used to laugh when he said we were Scots-Irish (or maybe that was "Scott"s-Irish). I used to think he was trying to make a joke (a pun based on our family name and the fact that his mother was originally from Ireland - County Antrim). Looking back 30+ years later, I'm not so sure. Maybe he was being serious and just laughed off any further inquiries to avoid embarrassment. (I have since found out why he obscured some things and didn't encourage my father and my aunt to ask a lot of questions about their lineage.)

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to be able to hire anyone to untangle the web my cousin hit when he was doing research on the Scott line. There are few surviving records for the Clinch River valley of SW Virginia from the mid to late 1700's that indicate place of origin of the settlers, their ancestry, nor even if they were related to one another. (There are at least three Scott families I'm aware of from the records available online, but there's no readily apparent relationship between them, nor from whence they came).

Best of luck unraveling your threads, Pat!

**ScotSniper** · 7th July 16, 04:26 PM

If it has not already been said, Collins Kith and Kin is a great resource if you are looking through names and helps with linking Septs and Clans. If you think you have found a link, it is recommended to reach out to the nearest Clan that bears a link and query them.