Oldest MacDonald sett?

[figheadair]

So it would have been set shortly after the Act of Proscription was repealed?
How many clan tartans were established in this time frame? How many date pre proscription?
Thanks David

David,

The pre-Proscription tartans still in use has been discussed before, see here.

The Act of Proscription was Repealed in 1782 so the Clan Donald is likely to be 15-20 years after that, which puts it in the mid-Highland Revival period. It's possible that it was originally a Fencible tartan, we know that the Glengarry was used for the Glengarries Fencibles in c1815. To understand what was going on at the time vis-à-vis new tartans it’s worth reading up on Wilsons of Bannockburn and their designs.

[OC Richard]

Here are some which appear in paintings:

Sir Alexander MacDonald.



The MacDonald Children. Note that there are four different tartans, three being worn by one person. The tartan on the jacket on the left is used for kilts nowadays.

[Damion]

The MacDonald Children. Note that there are four different tartans, three being worn by one person. The tartan on the jacket on the left is used for kilts nowadays.

Five different tartans if you count the sleeves of the older boy though the artist may have simply forgotten to add the horizontal stripes though the sett seems smaller too.
Might be coincidence, but maybe the older boy has two stripes either side of the wide band with his brother having one because he's the more senior.
The painting is from 1749 apparently.

[figheadair]

Five different tartans if you count the sleeves of the older boy though the artist may have simply forgotten to add the horizontal stripes though the sett seems smaller too.
Might be coincidence, but maybe the older boy has two stripes either side of the wide band with his brother having one because he's the more senior.
The painting is from 1749 apparently.

Four setts excluding the diced hose.

• Younger - coat.
• Elder - coat (the apparent difference in the sleeves is due to artistic licence, nothing more.
• Elder - waistcoat.
• Elder - kilt.

[Damion]

Four setts excluding the diced hose.

• Younger - coat.
• Elder - coat (the apparent difference in the sleeves is due to artistic licence, nothing more.
• Elder - waistcoat.
• Elder - kilt.

How do we know what is and isn't artistic licence when so little extant material survives? It's certainly possible that a wealthy lord could have a specific cloth made for sleeves. The child in question is around eight years old and it's possible that the sett used for the jacket wouldn't look as good on the sleeves. The younger boy shows the same sett for torso and sleeves so why would the artist make a mistake (or even just make up) in rendering the sleeves of the older and presumably more important/senior boy?

[figheadair]

How do we know what is and isn't artistic licence when so little extant material survives? It's certainly possible that a wealthy lord could have a specific cloth made for sleeves. The child in question is around eight years old and it's possible that the sett used for the jacket wouldn't look as good on the sleeves. The younger boy shows the same sett for torso and sleeves so why would the artist make a mistake (or even just make up) in rendering the sleeves of the older and presumably more important/senior boy?

That of course is true but having had the benefit of studying five surviving '45 era coats and countless portraits and I have seen nothing to support the idea that a different tartan would have been used for the sleeves or any other integral part of a highland coat. In fact, the counter arguement to your 'possibility' is that it would show that an individual could not afford enough of a particular pattern that they had to make do with mixed lots.

In the case of the MacDonald Boys' picture that if the sleeve is compared with the main body of the coat then the patterns align showing that the sleeves are indeed the same sett.



It's also interesting to compare it with that of James Moray, Yr of Abercairney that was almost certainly painted by the same artist using the format, but painting in a different face and the tartans in red and black.



The sett of the elder boy's coat is large and such tartans often proved difficult for artists to capture correctly, especially in small of folded areas of a piece of costume.

[Damion]

In fact, the counter arguement to your 'possibility' is that it would show that an individual could not afford enough of a particular pattern that they had to make do with mixed lots.

I was thinking more along the lines of little boys have skinny arms so some setts wouldn't work as well so they opted for something similar instead. Thanks for your learned input.

James Moray, Yr of Abercairney

Is he the son of the man in that painting that is sometimes referred to as the finest example of a belted plaid?