Definition of two words.

[Steve Ashton]

Recently a photo was flagged to the Forum Moderators as a possible violation of one of the guidelines in the "Weapons As Kilt Accessories" forum section.

The specific guideline is -

"What may not be discussed, posted or linked to. (within the "Weapons As Kilt Accessories" forum section)
Any posting, pictures or discussion of hunting. Specifically 'Trophy Photos'."

This flag began a 23 day long and very detailed discussion among the staff. It is felt that due to different words and meanings used around the world that this guideline needed some definition of the words "Hunting" and "Trophy Photo".



For the purposes of this forum -

The word "Hunting" is defined as the activity of going into the fields, bush, woods, or moors and killing animals. This definition covers all those words in the UK used for specific types of hunting such as 'stalking and 'shooting'. This definition covers the activity whether or not the person posting is engaged in the activity or not.

The Term "Trophy Photo" is defined as a photo of any game, fowl or fish taken while hunting/shooting/stalking/fishing and being put on display.

In the future any similar photos or discussion will be judged using these definitions of "Hunting" and "Trophy Photo".

It does not matter what method you use.
It does not matter what weapon is used.
It does not matter if you plan eat what you are have taken.
It does not matter if your plan is to 'catch and release' what you have taken.

In the future these definitions would not prohibit a member posting a photo of someone fishing as long as the topic of the post is focused on the kilt he is wearing and not the activity of fishing itself or display of the catch.
In the future a member may post photos of someone going about their normal occupation handling dead animals such as a sporran maker, taxidermist, Ghillie etc. as long as the topic of the post is focused on the kilt they are wearing or kilt accessory they are making and not the killing or displaying of the animal.
In the future a member may post photo of someone enjoying a day in the out of doors as long as the topic is not, or does not become, focused on the activity of hunting. i.e. Rex's photo of himself and his falcon is allowed. He is showing off his kilt outfit.

All other guidelines about weapons in the Weapons as Kilt Accessories forum section still apply.

X Marks is, and will remain, focused on the kilt. If a member has an interest in posting about hunting or the sporting life he may post all he wants on one of the thousands of forums where those activities are their chosen topic.

[Jock Scot]

As an observation, particularly as you are trying to sensibly merge together other countries terminology, specifically UK terminology into the forum rule book.

As you are launching this amended section it is better that I say this now, whilst it is in our minds. Sporting shotguns and sporting rifles are not regarded as weapons within the UK and rightly so. If they were, I doubt that UK laws would allow anyone to possess them. Some in the UK may, rightly, regard sporting shotguns and sporting rifles as tools, some may regard them a dangerous possessions, some may even regard them as dangerous toys, some think they should not be allowed to be owned by the general public ever, and whatever definition we in the UK use, they must be used with respect, safely and most importantly, responsibly. They are not regarded as weapons by the civilians (or those in authority that licence them) that use them and the term "weapon" to us in the UK,is generally thought of as military hardware past and present. Or, only when used with criminal intent do sporting shotguns and sporting rifles become "weapons", but then, so do cricket bats and bricks.

I am sorry to drop a spanner in the works, but your new "international" wording does not appear to take this into account.

[tripleblessed]

Every time someone brings this up YET AGAIN, it is more tiresome than the last. Where do people here think their food comes from? Without kilted soldiers winning the world for the Crown, how many would even be here? If it is not being USED to maim or murder a person, it is not a weapon. Period. Underlined.

What is even more tiresome is that these same individuals go on and on about various whiskies and beers, raving about their virtues and subtleties. If you will actually read your history and check the numbers, you'll find that year in and year
out, alcohol kills more people than weapons. Alcohol destroys more families. Alcohol causes more crime. More than
forty years of healing practice and ministerial counseling has made that very clear, even if I hadn't grown up seeing family lost to it. Yet no one calls for banning photos of bottles and drinking glasses. In the US, often cited as a violent country but actually comfortably down the list, more people die from hands and feet than from long guns. No one calls for cropping body parts out of pics so that focus is on the kilt being worn.

No reasonable adult condones violence, but hiding one's head in the sand is not going to eradicate millions of years of
fairly hard-wired behavior. We must, as thinking adults, focus on what is real, and how to help ourselves be more
aware, not less. We must all grow up. Harsh words, yet I doubt most who need to hear those five words do not
often peruse this forum.

People have existed for a long time before photos of weapons existed, but that lack did not prevent a single death.

[AFS1970]

Considering this is a site dedicated to a form of dress worn in Scotland, and many here are fiercely proud of their Scottish roots, especially those related to strength and the warrior spirit. I wonder how proud of us our ancestors would be knowing that we are so hurt by a picture or word. Here is another option, stop hiding in your safe spaces and live your life fully understanding that others live their lives in the same world at the same time.

[cessna152towser]

It is difficult to see how a restriction on posting photos involving firearms could be construed as "hiding in a safe place".
While those of us in Scotland (or in Canada) may have a different view on firearms from those who have certain Constitutional Rights in the United States of America, nonetheless this is a KILT forum and it appears to me that Steve's post offers a pragmatic solution to a long running controversy by agreeing that this forum shall henceforth accept Hunting and Fishing photos SO LONG AS the main focus of the photo is the KILT and not of the weapon used nor of the capture.

[MacKenzie]

Steve's post offers a pragmatic solution to a long running controversy by agreeing that this forum shall henceforth accept Hunting and Fishing photos SO LONG AS the main focus of the photo is the KILT and not of the weapon used nor of the capture.

I think that part went right by some.

[tripleblessed]

I think that part went right by some.

I find that unlikely.

[Jock Scot]

I absolutely agree this is a kilt forum and as such that is where the main thrust of subject must be. It is attempting to sanitise the other topics such as "weapons" so strictly, that causes the trouble. The long discussion between the Mods and Steve, whilst apparently not an easy discussion, has at least attempted a compromise by standardising international terminology and recognising national differences of sensitivities, to an extent. Which can only be good and I applaud that.

My post on this thread was pointing out that we have an opportunity to expand on this by reviewing other sections of the rules to advantage. At no time was I advocating a general relaxing of the "weapons" rules.

I know this is a hobby horse of mine, but I do have one serious suggestion to make. Now according to Alex and please correct me if I am wrong, as long as the kilt is the subject then for example a sporting gun lurking in the background will not, any longer raise an issue with the forum rules, provided it does not become a topic of conversation. Personally I would need confirmation on that because I do not read the amended rules quite like that.I digress.

So back to the suggestion. We agree that this is kilt forum, but the rule 11 does hamper, stifle some conversations from a traditional point of view as we have just seen on another thread. But how about keeping the kilt as the topic of conversation, as per the website title, BUT allowing the kilt picture to have a sporting gun/rifle in the background for context nothing more? Now, if we then limited the KILT discussion with Sporting gun /rifle in the background to the traditional kilt attire section and to Scotland----its just been done in essence on another thread------then the flood gates will not be opened. The non traditional kilt wearer from outwith Scotland AND within Scotland will still not be able to post the "look at me wearing the Z-kiltykilt, shooting my 50 round .03 mm Tonker Express weapon from a concealed holster in my sporran". I absolutely agree that this website does not need discussions of that style.

Kilts are and always should be the bread and butter of this website, but artificially micro managing reality in some parts on this website does stifle conversations and in my humble opinion, is the poorer for it.

Just saying.

[Taskr]

[QUOTE=Jock Scot;1328689] "...kilt wearer from outwith Scotland will still not be able to post the "look at me wearing the Z-kiltykilt, shooting my 50 round .03 mm Tonker Express weapon from a concealed holster in my sporran"[QUOTE]


That made my morning! Thanks Jock

[Steve Ashton]

Perhaps it was not clear.


Rule #11 is still in effect and unchanged.
The guidelines governing posts and discussion within the "Weapons as Kilt Accessories" are still in effect and unchanged.

All this notice is about is a clear definition of the two words "Hunting" & "Trophy Photo" as there was possibly some confusion due to geography.

This does not reflect any change to a rule, policy or guideline. Everything is, as it was.

The definitions of the two words are as they apply to this forum.