Adjustments for contemporary band height query

[Michael A]

Hi everybody,

I have just (almost) completed my first kilt, with Barb's excellent advice, which I will wear tonight at our pre-Burns night Burns Night at my lodge. I will note that I was not quite prepared for a full rise traditional design, so I will wear this kilt mainly with a suit/waistcoat, etc. For everyday dress I am more partial to a mid-rise kilt, just below the navel.

So initially I thought that to make mid-rise kilt I would do the usual calculation: add 2 inches to my waist-knee drop, then divide by three, but then take two inches off the fell, so that it still ends at the widest part of the seat, but doing that would place the buckles either right in the band, or require a new measurement at the lower level where the buckles will sit at just below hebtrue waist. So there may also be implications for the splits at a different site, and other potential flow-on effects.

So does anyone have any guide for measurements, splits etc for lower kilt heights?

Thanks in advance.

Michael

[Steve Ashton]

As one of the primary proponents of adjusting the fit of a kilt to suit personal preference and changing fashions maybe I can help.

When we talk about where the top of a kilt rides on the body please forget using the navel as a reference. Different guys will have their navel in different relative places. In general the more belly the lower the navel.

I prefer to use the bones to explain waist height.

This can be illustrated with this photo from the side.



A Full Rise kilt fits right up under the ribs.
A Mid Rise kilt fits with the waistband right on top of the hip bones.
A Low Rise kilt fits with the waistband down, over the hip bones.

All three places are where a waistband will naturally fit or move to as you move in your kilt.

From the front these three places look about like this.



To answer some of your question think this way. The distance from the knee up to the crest of the buttocks and hips is always the same. There is a bone in the leg. That distance which is the same thing as the length of the pleats from the bottom of the Fell, down to the hem, cannot change due to the thigh bone.

So, if we lower or raise the waistband of the kilt, the only thing that changes is the length of the Fell. Or from the crest of the hips & buttocks up to the waistband.

Because I make some kilts for other than full rise, I measure slightly differently than Barb does for a traditional kilt which is always full rise.

I first measure the height taken at the top of where I want the kilt's waist to be. I take this at what would be the side seam of trousers. This becomes my zero or reference point for all the other measurements.

Second I measure the height of the hips. This happens to be right about where the hip joint is on most men. If you lower and raise one leg as you are standing you can see the joint quite plainly. Subtract this height from the waist height and you have the Fell length.

Third, measure the height at the top of the knee cap. (or where you want your hem to hit your knee). Subtract this height from the same waist height and you have the drop length.

I am not going to get into slope right now because your kilt is almost finished and you would have had to plan for slope from the beginning. But you can see the effect of slope in the above photos. In general, the lower the waist is worn the more difference there is between the front and the back of the kilt. Making a kilt with Slope prevents a large pucker from forming in the front apron.

On any kilt with a waist worn lower than full rise I would leave the third or hip strap off. It is not needed and is only for bling anyway.

One final caution when planning the waist height of your kilt. If you ever plan on wearing a Prince Charlie Coatee, you will need to wear your kilt at Full Rise. Otherwise white shirt will be visible between the top of your kilt and the bottom of the jacket.

[Michael A]

Thank you so much for that comprehensive reply Steve. I am happy with my TAoK kilt, which I just wore to a Burns Night. I wear a kilt every day so a full rise kilt is also necessary for the reason you gave, but I have more tartan en route, so my next project will be a variant fitting, for which I will use your recommendations.

Thanks again. Now I must sleep, for now I have eaten so much haggis that I feel like I have become one!

[Barb T]

A traditional kilt is always laid out to have the top edge parallel to the tartan stripes, with no "slope" as Steve describes above for his contemporary kilts. The top buckles of a trad kilt are always at the true waist regardless of the amount of rise. If you have three people standing in front of you each wearing a properly made trad kilt and you can't see the tops of the kilts, the kilts will look identical, the bottoms will be in the same place at the top of the knee cap, and the buckles will be in exactly the same place both at the hip and the waist. The only difference will be how far the top of the kilt rides above the buckle line.

The instructions in TAoK start with the measurement from the true waist to the top of the knee and add a 2" rise to get the overall length of the kilt from top to bottom. The fell is 1/3 of that. So, yes, if you shorten the fell, you start by figuring out how long the kilt would be if it had a 2" rise (let's say 24"), divide by 3 to get the fell length (8"), and then subtract 1" from the length of the fell if you want the rise to be only 1" instead of 2" (i.e., the fell would be 7" long). If you wanted a 3" rise, the fell would be 8" + 1" = 9". In the first case, the buckle center would wind up 1" below the top edge of the kilt instead of 2" in kilt with a normal rise and 3" below the top of the kilt if you had a 3" rise. The hip buckle goes on 5" below the top of a kilt with a 2" rise, 4" below with a 1" rise, and 6" below with a 3" rise.

If you make the rise any smaller than about 1", the buckles will have to be put on below the waist level, because there just isn't enough room. So, in the case you talk about, Michael, you want the kilt top to be at your waist (no rise), so the buckles will have to be put on below the waist.

Here's an example of a kilt that has a "negative rise" - i.e., the top edge of the kilt falls about 2" below the waist: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...t-woman-75461/ I figured how long the kilt fell would be if the kilt had a regular rise, then subtracted 4", so the fell was only about 3 1/2" long. The bottom of the fell falls right where it should. Also, the kilt is longer than normal, so I did the fell calculation as if the kilt were a regular length (knee-top), than added a couple inches to the bottom of the kilt. So, even though the kilt is long, the bottom of the fell is in the right place because I didn't start with 1/3 of the length of the extra-long kilt.

[Michael A]

Oh, one more thing Steve, by "hip bones", may I presume you mean the top of the iliac crest, rather than the anatomical hip bone, which is the greater trochanter of the femur? I only ask, because in medicine when we say "hip", we refer to the hip ball-socket joint, joint where the femur meets the pelvis.

[Steve Ashton]

Most who do not know anatomy use the Iliac crest to be the hip bones. So to be correct I actually do say Iliac crest. And when I describe the hips and butt for the bottom of the Fell area I mean the Trochanter

[Michael A]

Oh good. We are on the same page.