Feather bonnet age?

[Jags]

Civilian pipe bands and pipers have been wearing military cap badges forever it seems with the Highland regiments being most popular. At the World pipe band championships you could see bands wearing Gordon, Argyll, Queens Own Highrs,etc badges, so it is still prevalent today. Many bands had loose affiliations with the old regiments, be it through old associations, ex servicemen starting the band, the list goes on. Some soldiers/ex soldiers do take issue with it, but the MOD doesn't care anymore because none of the badges are worn by any active regiments and in many cases permission was sought and given.

With regards to the mounting holes on the bonnet, my regular glengarry badge is spaced different than the staff badge I wore on my feather bonnet, so that is another consideration. As far as I know, the only bonnet dicing that can only be attributed to a particular regiment and not copied, is the vandyke (zig zag) pattern on first the Scots Greys then the RSDG's.

Interesting stuff, thanks for this info. So, they're possibly not as old as I first thought. I know the 'Seaforth' bonnet with the plastic chinstrap was bought second hand in the 80s but know nothing of the other to help age it. It doesn't matter, im just interested as I find them fascinating.

I'm torn between the two because I only need one so I intend to sell the other. The trouble is whilst the 'Seaforth' bonnet is more comfy on, has better condition lining and in my opinion a nicer dicing/badge combo, the 'Argyll' bonnet trumps it all day on shape and size! I had no idea there was such variation out there.

[OC Richard]

As for civilian wearing of feather bonnets with those dicing patterns, yes I have seen many feather bonnets sold in the ordinary civilian trade with the red & white 93rd Highlanders/Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders dicing.

But in 40 years of being around this stuff I can't remember ever seeing a civilian-market Glengarry or feather bonnet with the military red white & green dicing. The legit UK makers AFAIK have long used red white & black for the civilian market. (Red white & green for the Gordon Highlanders and the Seaforth Highlanders; red white & blue for the Black Watch and Queens Own Cameron Highlanders, who BTW used dicing on their feather bonnets but not on their Glengarries.)

It is a problem with Highland Dress that firms like Thomas Gordon & Son made doublets using identical materials and patterns for both military and civilian use, and likewise you'll see bonnets and various other things made identically by the same firms for both markets.

About the wider-spaced lugs, there would be a number of units using feather bonnets with the red & white dicing

-the 93rd Highlanders from the late 18th century to 1881.

-the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders from 1881 to recent times. Not so long ago their pipes & drums were on tour and the drummers were wearing these bonnets.

-the Calgary Highlanders.

-Cape Breton Highlanders.

-Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada.

Perhaps if you could determine the width between the lugs on these various cap badges you might find a match.

Victorian 93rd Highlanders badge



Calgary Highlanders badge

[48HofC]

Interesting stuff, thanks for this info. So, they're possibly not as old as I first thought. I know the 'Seaforth' bonnet with the plastic chinstrap was bought second hand in the 80s but know nothing of the other to help age it. It doesn't matter, im just interested as I find them fascinating.

I'm torn between the two because I only need one so I intend to sell the other. The trouble is whilst the 'Seaforth' bonnet is more comfy on, has better condition lining and in my opinion a nicer dicing/badge combo, the 'Argyll' bonnet trumps it all day on shape and size! I had no idea there was such variation out there.

The Argyll pattern is now gone from the British army with the reduction of 5SCOTS to Balaclava company, so it would be the rarer of the two so it seems. My first bonnet had the plastic chin strap and I couldn't stand it, not very comfortable especially in the heat. I traded it in as soon as I could and found the leather one ten times better. You can get the liner fixed up or a new one installed, had one done years ago in Edinburgh.

[Jags]

Funny, I read OC Richard's post and thought, yeah that's right, it is hard to get red, white, green - I'll keep that one. Then I read 48HofC's post about the Argyll dicing no longer being used and thought the same. I guess one can never have too many bonnets. Maybe I should collect them all!

[OC Richard]

The trick is the sizing, at least for somebody like me with a big head, 62 in UK sizing.

Feather bonnets are made to exact sizes, just as Glengarries and Balmorals are.

Anyhow here's several of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders feather bonnets being worn



And here in action, the last days of the Argylls... but they've come back before!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d9zS9IxwYw

In their current Public Duties role, the pared-down "incremental company" (Balaclava Company)

The pipes & drums appear to be those of 4 SCOTS (The Highlanders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmLzK0E3ok

which makes me wonder what happened to the pipes & drums of 5 SCOTS. One would think in their ceremonial role having their own pipes & drums would be necessary.

[48HofC]

The trick is the sizing, at least for somebody like me with a big head, 62 in UK sizing.

Feather bonnets are made to exact sizes, just as Glengarries and Balmorals are.

Anyhow here's several of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders feather bonnets being worn



And here in action, the last days of the Argylls... but they've come back before!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d9zS9IxwYw

In their current Public Duties role, the pared-down "incremental company" (Balaclava Company)

The pipes & drums appear to be those of 4 SCOTS (The Highlanders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmLzK0E3ok

which makes me wonder what happened to the pipes & drums of 5 SCOTS. One would think in their ceremonial role having their own pipes & drums would be necessary.

The pipes and drums of 5 SCOTS were broken up and the members were were distributed between the 4 remaining battalions or went to the regular infantry companies. The last PM, Scott Methven went on to be the present sovereigns piper. There is not enough work for a pipe band to be maintained for public duties with Balaclava company, so different bands from the battalions are tasked along with the SCOTS military band to perform on certain occasions. With the rerolling of P&D's from SF to AP, they are becoming more necessary in their non music role as part of the overall regiment.
The chances of the Argylls returning is about the same as the Cameronians, not a part of the new model army the MOD is striving for. The remaining battn's are not able to keep numbers up as it is and even 1 SCOTS has been downsized to fit the new "specialized battalion" role. It is a sad state really, eventually SCOTS will likely be down to 3 reg and 1 reserve bttn's.

[Jags]

The trick is the sizing, at least for somebody like me with a big head, 62 in UK sizing.

Feather bonnets are made to exact sizes, just as Glengarries and Balmorals are.

Anyhow here's several of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders feather bonnets being worn



And here in action, the last days of the Argylls... but they've come back before!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d9zS9IxwYw

In their current Public Duties role, the pared-down "incremental company" (Balaclava Company)

The pipes & drums appear to be those of 4 SCOTS (The Highlanders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmLzK0E3ok

which makes me wonder what happened to the pipes & drums of 5 SCOTS. One would think in their ceremonial role having their own pipes & drums would be necessary.

Great photo! I notice they're all wearing white plumes. Both my bonnets came with red plumes and I had thought only the Black Watch were allowed to wear red plumes, but then I read that other Pipes and Drums wore red and so it was overlooked. Interesting that the Argyll's band wore white.

[48HofC]

Great photo! I notice they're all wearing white plumes. Both my bonnets came with red plumes and I had thought only the Black Watch were allowed to wear red plumes, but then I read that other Pipes and Drums wore red and so it was overlooked. Interesting that the Argyll's band wore white.

The plumes are actually called hackles and a usually made from vulture feathers by tradition. Most of the Highland regiments , Gordons, Argylls, Queens Own Highrs, RHF wore white hackles except for the BW with red. The military Band of the SCOTS wore red for a while, not sure if they still do, and the Scots Guards pipers wear red and blue. White has been the standard for years.

[Jags]

The plumes are actually called hackles and a usually made from vulture feathers by tradition. Most of the Highland regiments , Gordons, Argylls, Queens Own Highrs, RHF wore white hackles except for the BW with red. The military Band of the SCOTS wore red for a while, not sure if they still do, and the Scots Guards pipers wear red and blue. White has been the standard for years.

Oh, aren't hackles the short ones worn on Glengarries and Balmorals and plumes the longer ones worn on feather bonnets?

[Jags]

The plumes are actually called hackles and a usually made from vulture feathers by tradition. Most of the Highland regiments , Gordons, Argylls, Queens Own Highrs, RHF wore white hackles except for the BW with red. The military Band of the SCOTS wore red for a while, not sure if they still do, and the Scots Guards pipers wear red and blue. White has been the standard for years.

Found this image online. I'm sure I also read somewhere that the Seaforth pipes and drums wore red.