General service / list - what's that all about?

[Jags]

Hi,

I've got a doublet with what I think is called 'General Service / List' buttons but what I'd like to know is, were there also 'General Service / List' sporrans, i.e. sporrans with the coat of arms badge instead of any specific regiment?

If so, who wore these? Who were they intended for? And why?

Cheers for any responses!

J

[Steve Ashton]

"The general service button could be the subject of a pretty hefty book in its own right ! I believe that the question is directed towards post 1902 (King's crown) buttons so I will concentrate on them. The most universal issue of general service buttons was after the commencement of WW1. Once the BEF had gone, usually wearing regimental or territorial buttons, and the first wave of reinforcements had been equipped, mass conscription brought vast numbers of soldiers into the war. The vast majority went to war wearing general service buttons. This is evidenced by a rarity of other ranks buttons of the WW1 period with regimental devices. Also, the numbers of contractors and sub-contractors manufacturing general service buttons was huge - such was the demand. One victim of the 'generalisation' of buttons was Jennens & Co., who had always prided themselves on their specific regimental designs. They eventually gave way to Gaunts in 1924. Of course, there are Dress Regulations and War Department Regulations to support changes in procurement policy."

[Bruce Scott]

"Although regimental pattern buttons continued for officers, other ranks wore 'General Service' buttons from 1871 until after the First World War (the same pattern throughout the whole Army). The British Army is full of exceptions, and some regiments permitted NCOs to wear regimental buttons during this period."
http://www.adamparkproject.com/virtu...gsbutton2.html

During WWI the GS button was also worn as a cap badge by recruits in Training Reserve Battalions. There was also a GS hat badge (see below), which was worn by officers on the “General List”. The list was, in effect, of a pool of officers awaiting allocation to a regiment or corps. The GS hat badge is still worn by recruits at the Army Training Centre (ATC), Pirbright until they are issued their respective corps / unit cap badge.

[48HofC]

The odds are you’ve got a regular MOD tunic that someone put General list buttons on as there was no specific general list uniform, just cap badges and buttons. Many who sell old tunics will switch out regimental buttons with GS buttons because they are MOD issue, but of way lesser value than original Battalion buttons.

[Jags]

Thanks all,

That's really interesting, I had no idea but it makes sense now.

By the way, when I say tunic, I mean Highland Tunic as per the label. It is a 1912 dated scarlet doublet with yellow facings.

I've checked my tunic and there's really no evidence of the buttons being switched. As GS buttons became standard, is it not actually more common to find one with GS buttons than without?

As for the sporran part of my question. Has anyone ever seen a GS sporran badge?

Thanks.

[48HofC]

Back in the early 20th century, Scottish regiments were still having doublets made specific to the regiments, not like the green mass produced ones issued after ww2. Could be the makers put GS buttons on when made and if it wasn’t issued, never had regimental ones installed. Did it come with collar dogs installed? No collar dogs, or holes for them will answer instantly if it was issued or not.

[Jags]

Back in the early 20th century, Scottish regiments were still having doublets made specific to the regiments, not like the green mass produced ones issued after ww2. Could be the makers put GS buttons on when made and if it wasn’t issued, never had regimental ones installed. Did it come with collar dogs installed? No collar dogs, or holes for them will answer instantly if it was issued or not.

Thanks for your input.

No, no evidence of any collar or shoulder tags whatsoever. I don't think it was ever used.

But why go to the effort of sewing on GS buttons only for them to be replaced once a regiment required the tunics? Or would they actually have been worn by a holding unit in those days, which would make it worth sewing those buttons on?

Cheers

[Jags]

So no-one ever seen a GS sporran?

Cheers

[Bruce Scott]

Not until now - I spotted this photo on Ebay:



Seller's info: "Interesting real Photographic postcard showing a Private serving with an unknown Highland Regiment; and wearing a " General Service " badge on his sporran. The Glengarry has a plain sweatband and the cap badge is obscured [ though looks to be either HLI or Royal Scots - Edinburgh Rifles ]. Probably serving with a Home Service Labour Battalion. Postcard in excellent overall condition for age."

From: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Soldie...p2047675.l2557

[Jags]

I appears to have been done. I spotted this photo on Ebay:



Seller's info: "Interesting real Photographic postcard showing a Private serving with an unknown Highland Regiment; and wearing a " General Service " badge on his sporran. The Glengarry has a plain sweatband and the cap badge is obscured [ though looks to be either HLI or Royal Scots - Edinburgh Rifles ]. Probably serving with a Home Service Labour Battalion. Postcard in excellent overall condition for age."

From: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Soldie...p2047675.l2557

Thanks! Brilliant to see photographic evidence. I wonder if anyone be can expand on this?