CLAN TARTANS.

[James]

I'd like to mention that some do take the association between an individual, their clan and the tartan of that clan rather more seriously than some seem to think when communicating on this forum.

Too the idea that all tartans and their associations were created in the early 19thC is certainly in doubt. To illustrate this, there is a present debate as to the possiblity that the Black Watch tartan was an adopted clan tartan from area in which it was raised-which pushes back the notion of clan tartans a good hundred years.

Of course in recent years the makers of both material and kilts being anxious to make sales have been possibly over generous as to entitlement, so weakening the association between family and tartan.

I only mention the above because it is a sensitive area in some quarters, and there is a need on occasion to approach the matter with some delicacy.

James

[Graham]

Hi James, I certainly appreciate your views, I'm a lover of history and the traditions surrounding the tartan and clans in particular, as many of us are here.

So what are you saying here? do you think some are too flippant with tartans? Do you think we should be more sure about our entitlement and stick to it?

Just wondering what sensitivity means....remember this is an open forum on kilts, your views are as valid as anyone elses.

[Magnus Sporrano]

Very few of us here are actually in Scotland. Very few who are in Scotland wear kilts on a daily basis unless they work at a tourist trap. For better or for worse, non-Scots are now driving the evolution of kilt traditions into the new millenium. I think we may find that even if there ever was an enduring tie between tartans and clans, it will be a blip in the history books in the grand scheme of things.

[Casey]

This has come up a few times. Jimmy, even gave us a lot of information, as a member of the Tartan Authority.

I'm about to think out loud.

Should we be strict and severely limit the wearing of clan tartan. Or, should we adopt a more, shall I say, open attitude, but with respect. OR, who gives a damn and wear what you want.

I have chewed on this many times and personally I have taken the middle road. I have researched, by name, what I am allowed to wear and have stuck to those to clans. Having said that, I feel that my ties to the Gordon clan are much stronger than the MacGregor. So, should I not be wearing the MacGregor? It's a clan so dispersed that maybe I have a stronger claim than I think. I don't know.

James, and all those that are firm in their views, I hope that you can accept my decision.

Another side of the issue is the promotion of kilts. Many people are more comfortable with a man wearing a tartan than a plain kilt. Should this be an influence? Do we need to start creating new tartans?

I also have a concern that, historically, cultures and languages that have not grown, changed and adapted, have died. Who speaks Latin? Do we want this to happen to the clan tartans? I just wore my kilt eating Italian food in a French Canadian city. I like the idea of the diversity.

Casey

[macwilkin]

Here's my two bob's worth:

I see James's point, as well as Casey's "middle ground" when it comes to wearing a particular tartan. Respect is the key word: respect for tradition, and respect for the tartan you choose to wear. I'll borrow Jimmy's matra here: "Know your tartan!" That is key, because people are going to ask, and they will almost always ask why YOU are wearing it.

New tartans are being created every day -- new clan & family tartans, tartans for corporations and organisations, and personal tartans. I just read recently of an Italian tartan for Italians living in Scotland.

The thing is, the Scottish culture has not died; it has simply moved across the seas. A Scottish friend of mine is always saying, "If you want Scottish culture, don't go to Scotland! Go to Nova Scotia or Grandfather Mountain or Dunedin, New Zealand, because the Scots are there!" I think there's a lot of validity to that statement.

I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating: At a gathering of MacDonalds in Scotland, several Scots were upset at all of the Canucks, Yanks, Aussies, etc. wearing kilts. They complained to Lord MacDonald, who replied: "The blood is strong. Do you really think a couple of hundred years and a thousand miles of ocean can kill it?"

Cheers,

T.

[Graham]

True it is that has been said:

Scots are more scottish outside of Scotland
Irish are more Irish outside of ireland, English....etc.

and I guess each of us have our own understanding as to how we wish to live, promote, enjoy and emulate the Scottish/celtic experience in our own lives.

I may not present Scottish-ness correctly, but I'm willing to learn and grow, and if the likes of james can correct me, instruct me and bring me into a richer experience of the celtic life - then I'm all ears.

(wow, I can get quite eloquent after a few drams, what think ye? )

[Jerry]

I only wear clan tartans to which I feel I have a connection (MacNeil from my father and Gordon from my mother). But, that is my choice, and I have no objection to you, Casey, Graham or anyone else wearing these or any other tartans. When researching in which tartan to purchase my first kilt, I contacted the two clans I mentioned, and their view was that although I had a legitimate connection with both, I did not have to have that connection to wear their tartans. Many clans will accept members who have no sept or family connection, as long as the members support the clan. There are also quite a few non-clan related tartans, and I would feel okay wearing these.

[Miah]

My personal feelings on this are, atleast know what tartan you are wearing and a little about it. Other then that wear what ya like. If it was so horrid for somebody to be wearing it why would it be available. I wear a Scottish National Tartan but I am not a Scottish National. I know it puts some people on edge but ya know what, I don't care. I wear whatever I want. If ever there is a time that somebody questions my right to wear a tartan I choose, I will ask them if they have the couple hundred bucks I paid for it. If so I will take the kilt off and hand it over to them. Maybe it is because I am Young or because I am a mean person or something but I find it funny that the people that cry about this the most are the ones that don't even wear the damned tartan themselves.

Thats my 4 or 5 cents worth.

[Hamish]

I wear my 'entitled' Clan tartan (Gunn) with great pride, in two versions: Ancient colours and Weathered colours. Unfortunately, the Modern colours version is dull and somewhat uninteresting to my mind and so I choose not to wear it.

Additionally, I like to pay my respect to other clans and their chiefs, by wearing their tartans with the same pride as I wear my own. Those tartans are, however, added to my Kilt Kollection not because of any historical links or ties, but because I am attracted to the colours that form them, nothing more.

I wear the Canadian Maple Leaf tartan with pride, because I like the colouring, although I have no blood connections with that nation. I wear the district tartan of Nithsdale, again because I like the colours (within Scotland, Nithsdale and the traditional 'Gunn' lands in Sutherland could hardly be further apart!).

My respect is paid equally to all tartans, except perhaps the disastrously over-commercialised ones, which have already lost all serious respect!

[macwilkin]

If it was so horrid for somebody to be wearing it why would it be available. I wear a Scottish National Tartan but I am not a Scottish National.

Actually, the Scottish National, the Irish National, Welsh National, etc. is meant for anyone is a citizen of that nation, or who is a descendant of someone who came from there. If people are giving you heck because of that point, then they are in the wrong. Technically, it is a "district" tartan, and may be worn by anyone who lives in that district or has a connection to that district, however small.

Cheers,

T.