Personal flair

[Jock Scot]

.........

I know we've had threads lamenting this in the past, and I don't necessarily mean to go there again. But suffice it to say that this probably explains a lot when it comes to Americans wanting to overdress when they want to present themselves positiviely. Being undredressed is most definitely not an asset.

We see some pretty shabby attire choices over here these days too. However overdressing is regarded to be as bad(incorrect) as underdressing over here. Many over here make considerable efforts to dress appropriately. This is helped considerably by hosts who know exactly what is required dress wise, therefore clear guidance is available. Which does help more than somewhat.

[Tobus]

We see some pretty shabby attire choices over here these days too. However overdressing is regarded to be as bad(incorrect) as underdressing over here. Many over here make considerable efforts to dress appropriately. This is helped considerably by hosts who know exactly what is required dress wise, therefore clear guidance is available. Which does help more than somewhat.

Well, that's the other side of the proverbial coin. Dressing appropriately is an easy thing to do when there is clear guidance via language in an invitation or a generally understood protocol. Here in the USA, it is considered rude to put a dress code on an invitation for all but the most formal of events. People expect a certain level of dress, but they can't really say it explicitly or they'll offend people. It's a strange dichotomy in our societal expectations, and leads to a lot of embarrassment.

I don't mean to imply that overdressing is always considered good here. Yes, it is rather embarrassing to show up to a party wearing a suit and tie when everyone else is wearing shorts and Hawaiian shirts. When people grossly overdress, they are often smirked at for trying too hard to be the center of attention. There are all kinds of assumptions made about them, but very rarely is it (in my experience anyway) that they are ostentatiously trying to flaunt wealth. People just don't seem as sensitive about that subject here.

[Tarheel]

I look at "bling or personal flair" like this. I consider a road sign that gives pertinent information more important than a over sized billboard trying to sell me some disposable consumer product.

I don't wear my wedding ring (due to work conditions) except when out with my wife. A little flash of metal says a lot (my wife's eyes say more when she is unhappy).

[OC Richard]

I don't even know what board shorts or zorries are

(The "board" means a surfboard.)

Underdressing for an event will often brand a person as having "no class", or being "trashy". It is most definitely not a respectable thing to do here in the USA.

I guess it's an example of our local Southern California culture, but the guy showing up in a t-shirt to a wedding or funeral might have driven up in a $100,000 car and be CEO of a software firm or some such.

Yes he's wearing a t-shirt but it probably cost $200.

Definitely not shabby!

[MacCathail]

Thanks for that well-worded summation.

But when it comes to non-Highland Dress locals here are often ludicrously underdressed for events. As a piper I attend more weddings and funerals than most people, and always there's at least one guy wearing board shorts, zorries, and a t-shirt. (Sometimes there's an Aloha Shirt thrown over the t-shirt to make it dressier.)

As another Southern California piper, I assure you he's not exaggerating in the least. I can't tell you how how many funerals I've played for where the funeral director and I are the only two men with neckties. Sometimes the funeral director is a woman and it's only me.

Sometimes I swear well-dressed around here means a clean T-shirt. Formal is one with no obscenities on it. (And for those who wonder, that last is indeed an exaggeration. Not as much of an exaggeration as I wish it was, but still an exaggeration.)

-John-

[Blaidd]

Here in the USA, it is considered rude to put a dress code on an invitation for all but the most formal of events. People expect a certain level of dress, but they can't really say it explicitly or they'll offend people. It's a strange dichotomy in our societal expectations, and leads to a lot of embarrassment.

I don't mean to imply that overdressing is always considered good here. Yes, it is rather embarrassing to show up to a party wearing a suit and tie when everyone else is wearing shorts and Hawaiian shirts. When people grossly overdress, they are often smirked at for trying too hard to be the center of attention. There are all kinds of assumptions made about them, but very rarely is it (in my experience anyway) that they are ostentatiously trying to flaunt wealth. People just don't seem as sensitive about that subject here.

I read these comments with genuine interest, Tobus, from an educational perspective. In a military environment (certainly UK-centric) we still issue invites to social gatherings, and it is not unusual for them to include a dress code for the guidance of attendees. I am not referring to just the top-end high-brow events either. It's true that we (the military) have unwritten, but known and accepted standards of dress for certain functions (At Home, Fork Supper etc) and the designated codes of 'Casual', 'Relaxed', 'Lounge Suit', 'Black Tie'. For example, an 'At Home' dinner party, attended by people classed as friends, one would expect male attendees to be in long sleeve shirt with collar and non-jean trousers (chinos for example) and shoes ('Relaxed'). The invite may also include a dress code, to give that additional guidance as an indicator if there is a guest of certain stature in attendance ('Casual' say, which would suggest a jacket (optional tie - but most would go with tie and remove as the situation dictates) - saves the embarrassment of under dressing. Perhaps we are too rooted in the past, who knows?

All that said, a very interesting read though, on how expectations/''standards'' differ across the waters/borders. An enjoyable dicsussion.

[MacKenzie]

The US has just become more casual societally. Been in an airport lately? The "business suit" is almost non-existent - even in the so-called "white collar" world. Around here the only men you see in a jacket/tie are attorneys going to court. Yet, if you stop by their office they'll be in golf/polo shirt and khakis.

Dressing appropriately is an easy thing to do when there is clear guidance via language in an invitation

It should be easy, but that guidance is ignored. The invitation for the last wedding I attended stated, specifically, "semi-formal (suit & tie)". Myself, the official, and the fathers of the groom and bride were the only men wearing a tie. The bride's own brother didn't even wear a tie (but he did at least have on a clean, white shirt tucked into his well worn jeans).

I guess it's an example of our local Southern California culture, but the guy showing up in a t-shirt to a wedding or funeral might have driven up in a $100,000 car and be CEO of a software firm or some such.

Yes he's wearing a t-shirt but it probably cost $200.

Definitely not shabby!

Definitely not right. I would presume that the CEO thought that he was "above the law" and label him a disrespectful dolt.

[Father Bill]

*snip* Perhaps we are too rooted in the past, who knows?

I deeply respect those roots. It is impossible to be “rooted” in either the present or future, so in my opinion, if one is not rooted in the past, then one is just unrooted and therefore wild and unreliable.

[Jock Scot]

I deeply respect those roots. It is impossible to be “rooted” in either the present or future, so in my opinion, if one is not rooted in the past, then one is just unrooted and therefore wild and unreliable.

I totally agree with you Bill. However there are three(I could add another but its best un-said) stumbling blocks that make regular and unhelpful appearances here on this website and elsewhere, that really do not help those that are trying to dress to best effect in attire that they are not accustomed to and or visiting events that they are unfamiliar with.

1. Pictures in general, particularly on the internet that have no explanations so that the unknowing, cannot understand the "where, what and why" they are looking at any given garment and therefore cannot make accurate choices.
2. Historical themed pictures, with no explanation to the relevance---if any--- to the kilt wearer of today.
3. Pictures and misleading advice on hire company attire that does not follow the more conservative kilt attire traditions.

The end results can be, not only theatrical, but also, financially painful to those who unwittingly follow these three routes. I really do wish that those on this website new to kilt wearing, in particular, did not have to weave their way through the myriad of inaccurate information that abounds on the internet.

Then I could retire!

[Nomad]

Then I could retire!

LOL!!!!! Go on admit it, your life would be empty without it.

I for for one would miss your input to the forum, your advice is gratefully received and your your sometimes scalding, but normally subtle feedback is quite legendary.

Right that's enough of the man hugs