Bow tie with 5 button waistcoat?

[Jock Scot]

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A large part of Elegance is the ability to carry off simplicity with grace. Not sticking out like someone trying too hard to be noticed. Elegance is about the man in the clothing not about the clothes the man is wearing.

Exactly so! Many miss this salient point and particularly so, with the lower end of formal evening kilt attire.

[Tobus]

Awesome. Bob Hope, John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, and Don Draper all in one thread! I have to agree, those guys were prime examples of how to look suave in black tie. There's more to it than the elements of the outfit; it's about looking comfortable and relaxed. So many people who put on evening wear look like they're stiff and miserable.

The point is well-made, though: evening wear really should be kept simple and elegant. Highland conventions notwithstanding, you can never go wrong by keeping it simple.

If I were considering the original question here, I would make my decision based on context. Wearing a green Argyll jacket to a black tie event would be fine for a Highland-themed event where there will be lots of kilts worn, whether with a 3-button or 5-button waistcoat, black or green, or no waistcoat at all. If it were some other event where I'd be the only one in a kilt, I'd probably stick with a black jacket and no waistcoat so as to "bridge the gap" between Highland and non-Highland traditions.

[OC Richard]

black Argyll jackets pressed into service as black tie outfits...

This is the first thing I noticed. Remember that Prince Charlie coatees are a 20th century invention, and only in the second half of the 20th century became regarded by many as the end-all and be-all of Evening Dress jackets.


In Victorian times formal jackets were either of the Doublet or the Argyll cut, so I would regard a black Argyll not as an outsider pressed into service, but rather a much older and more traditional style than the Prince Charlie coatee.

About waistcoats, yes the Prince Charlie seems to have used the low-cut waistcoat from the beginning.

But the 19th century high-buttoning waistcoats long worn with the already-existing Doublets and Argylls began getting lower towards the end of the 19th century and into the early 20th.

Here's a Doublet worn with a mid-height waistcoat



Here's a black Argyll with high-buttoning waistcoat worn with Evening Dress, black bow tie, plaid, Evening Dress sporran, tartan hose, buckled shoes.



Here you can see a variety of waistcoat heights, from the high-buttoning one worn by the piper (with a Doublet) and a low-buttoning one by the centre dancer (with an Argyll)



which should challenge our assumptions about which sort of waistcoats ought to be worn with which sort of jackets.

[FossilHunter]

Exactly so! Many miss this salient point and particularly so, with the lower end of formal evening kilt attire.

What are your thoughts on a bottle green argyle jacket for black tie? All other aspects being the same as a black jacket as far as accessories. Solid hose, polished brogues, etc.

Personal flair or over egging the cake?

[Jock Scot]

What are your thoughts on a bottle green argyle jacket for black tie? All other aspects being the same as a black jacket as far as accessories. Solid hose, polished brogues, etc.

Personal flair or over egging the cake?

It depends on the shade of green, I think. There is a distinct possibility of over egging the cake with the wrong shade of green. Personally, black looks rather smart for the lower end black tie events, it’s not the place for being adventurous with jacket colours.I cannot really see why anyone would want any other colour other than black. However it’s your choice on what you wear and where you wear it, but I would advise caution.

Just a thought. A white dress jacket, black waistcoat,or cummerbund, in the tropics ......”Red Sea rig” ......was an effective alternative in the past, but apart from James Bond, I am not at all sure if many civilians wear it these days.

[FossilHunter]

It depends on the shade of green, I think. There is a distinct possibility of over egging the cake with the wrong shade of green. Personally, black looks rather smart for the lower end black tie events, it’s not the place for being adventurous with jacket colours.I cannot really see why anyone would want any other colour other than black. However it’s your choice on what you wear and where you wear it, but I would advise caution.

Just a thought. A white dress jacket, black waistcoat, in the tropics ......”Red Sea rig” ......was an effective alternative in the past, but apart from James Bond, I am not at all sure if many civilians wear it these days.

Very dark green and only because I like the color. I like that it is a bit different but not enough to be an eyesore (to my eye anyway), because it is so dark.

If the argyle is most suited to the lower end of black tie formality, are you suggesting that black is the only suitable color for that style of jacket? It’s certainly the most common but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything because white socks are common too.

[Jock Scot]

You will probably get away with dark green. The question you have to ask yourself is, “ do I want to dress to best effect?” If you do, then thought is required with your purchases. If little thought is used then expensive trial and error is the path you are on. You may think you have made the right choice, but if doubt is there working away, then perhaps a re- think might be on the cards. It’s your choice.

White socks are most definitely common!

[FossilHunter]

You will probably get away with dark green. The question you have to ask yourself is, “ do I want to dress to best effect?” If you do, then thought is required with your purchases. If little thought is used then expensive trial and error is the path you are on. You may think you have made the right choice, but if doubt is there working away, then perhaps a re- think might be on the cards. It’s your choice.

White socks are most definitely common!

I didn’t have doubt until this thread went from button count to color!

But that is the organic nature of forums and it leads to good discussion and I’ve seen reasoned and varying opinions here. Even if I get a green jacket and someone else hates it, at least I will have at least considered other views on it. I’d much prefer to do something unusual with intent rather than ignorance.

[Jock Scot]

I didn’t have doubt until this thread went from button count to color!

But that is the organic nature of forums and it leads to good discussion and I’ve seen reasoned and varying opinions here. Even if I get a green jacket and someone else hates it, at least I will have at least considered other views on it. I’d much prefer to do something unusual with intent rather than ignorance.

I would have thought wearing the kilt in the USA was unusual enough!

[FossilHunter]

I would have thought wearing the kilt in the USA was unusual enough!

I’m afraid you’ve got me there. ;)

This is the actual jacket I was considering if you’re interested in the shade.

https://www.jhiggins.net/daywear-arg...-bottle-green/