Dress Sporran...what determines a fromal/dress Sporran.

[CollinMacD]

The raccoons here in Mississippi are not a brown as those in the northern states. Ours are more grey and black tones. Beaver would be my fur of choice. Our groundhogs are lighter furred also.

If a copper cantle isn't properly coated and sealed, the patina will be green as it ages. I believe brass is the better choice. I like the design you have in mind and think the concept will be worth the effort in the end.

Of course southern Raccoons have a grey coat, but northern Raccoons, doe not wear blue, they are more brown/black.

[FossilHunter]

Of course southern Raccoons have a grey coat, but northern Raccoons, doe not wear blue, they are more brown/black.

I’m disappointed that I couldn’t find a picture of a raccoon in a kepi on google to post here.

I saw that copper cantle you liked on clanart and it appears to be copper plated pewter rather than solid copper. I don’t know if that matters to you.

[David Dubh]

I would echo Tarheel’s sentiment that the copper will turn green when it oxidizes (think pennies). So I would go with brass. Alternately you could go with a brown leather cantle instead as Steve pointed out it would be considered semi dress or between dress and semi dress. Think leather hunter style but with fur where the petals are.
Slainte David

[Tarheel]

Thanks for the nod David. I agree the base metal of choice should be pewter. Copper will not adhere easily to zinc or steel except through various washes that can be expensive and time consuming (due to the cost/chemistry of electroplating additives).

I would solve this venture this way. Sand cast or lost wax a pewter cantle design. Copper plate the pewter. Keep the mould and offer other casting copies to recoup the costs. Option 2> have someone else do that part for you.

I apologize if this sounds snarky. I think in "do it yourself" terms and mean no offense.

[CollinMacD]

Have finalized my design, and read all the posts, but I have to go with what I really would like. Going with the copper canter, plated pewter, with the matching three thistle copper balls. The fur will be Raccoon, but I have eliminated any leather on the front of the Sporran, so it will be all fur with three small fur tassels. I decided against the leather on the front to make more of a formal Sporran. I stayed with the copper simply be cost any brass cantle I found was more than what it would cost for the actual sporran, taking in consideration I will wear this only a few times a year, and I already have another formal one that I like, could not justify the cost. I know some will disagree with using copper, but I do like the look and it is different. So I will post when finished.' I would like to thank everybody who posted and provide me their opinions, and facts about this. I truly appreciate all you input. Cheers.

[CollinMacD]

I would echo Tarheel’s sentiment that the copper will turn green when it oxidizes (think pennies). So I would go with brass. Alternately you could go with a brown leather cantle instead as Steve pointed out it would be considered semi dress or between dress and semi dress. Think leather hunter style but with fur where the petals are.
Slainte David

When copper turns green you still can polish and clean it. I have several pieces of Cooper jewelry that I got in Kinshasa and South Africa, and when they oxidize there is a copper cleaner, a German paste in a toothpaste tube, that works great. Use them to clean the bottoms of copper pots and pans.... Actually polishes easier than brass. Another reason I chose copper, the color itself is a warm color, brass seems to me to be cold. I like how copper color blends more with grey and browns, and I think brass looks great with black and blues. So that is why I am going with Copper, even though the cantle is pewter and plated, I know I will enjoy it.

[CollinMacD]

I’m disappointed that I couldn’t find a picture of a raccoon in a kepi on google to post here.

I saw that copper cantle you liked on clanart and it appears to be copper plated pewter rather than solid copper. I don’t know if that matters to you.

Well this is the best I could do, since I am a Viet Nam vet, here is a VCR... you hear of them, no not Viet Cong Regulars, but Viet Cong Raccoon..

[OC Richard]

Please resize the racoon pic! It's huge file size is messing up this page on my laptop. A maximum width of around 900 should be fine

Anyhow back to the OP:

That sporran is lovely, but it's a modern hybrid, neither an Evening Dress sporran nor a Day Dress sporran.

It appears to me to be inspired by certain vintage Hunting sporrans. Hunting sporrans are decidedly Day sporrans.

For it to be an internally consistent Hunting sporran the cantle should be brass, and the tassels should be brown leather matching the targe.

For it to be an internally consistent Evening Dress sporran the brown leather targe should be removed.

Now keeping in mind that I'm talking traditional sporrans, in the genre or idiom of traditional Highland Dress, and fully acknowledging that anybody can make and wear any sort of sporran they choose, here are examples of what I mean:


A fancy vintage Hunting sporran. It's fancy, it has a silver top, it has fur, but it is a Day Dress sporran which would have been worn with tweed outdoor jackets etc.



Here's a typical Day sporran with fur.



The point is, adding fur to a Day sporran, be it an ordinary leather Day sporran or a Hunting sporran, does not change its Day-ness.

In the modern traditional Highland Dress which evolved in the early 20th century, Evening sporrans were seal with silver tops.



At some point, probably around the 1960s, some sporran maker decided to take the targe off a Hunting sporran and stick it on an Evening Dress sporran.

It looks like what it is, a non-traditional hybrid or mutant (note the big gap between the targe motif and the cantle, they didn't make much effort).



Now the one you're talking about takes another step towards the ornate c1900 Hunting sporrans with fur and cantle.

Here's one. Very nice. But if I were to order one I'd want it with leather tassels, and I'd wear it with Day tweed.

As it is it's in the Uncanny Valley between Day and Evening... IMHO it doesn't look quite right with tweed Day dress, nor with black Evening Dress.

[CollinMacD]

Please resize the racoon pic! It's huge file size is messing up this page on my laptop. A maximum width of around 900 should be fine

Anyhow back to the OP:

That sporran is lovely, but it's a modern hybrid, neither an Evening Dress sporran nor a Day Dress sporran.

It appears to me to be inspired by certain vintage Hunting sporrans. Hunting sporrans are decidedly Day sporrans.

For it to be an internally consistent Hunting sporran the cantle should be brass, and the tassels should be brown leather matching the targe.

For it to be an internally consistent Evening Dress sporran the brown leather targe should be removed.

I agree, and that is why I have changed to just a fur, no leather Sporran.