1796 Gordon box pleat kilt

[Steve Ashton]

True box pleats will look very similar on the front and the back.

If you look at the back or inside of a kilt 'miltary box pleated'/'unequal leg box pleated'/'box-knife pleated', it will look like a knife pleated kilt.

[figheadair]

To the best of my knowledge, the 1796 Gordon kilt is, apart from the 1790 Macduff kilt, the oldest surviving example of a tailored kilt. Just wondering, is there another 18th century box pleat kilt?

The date of the Gordon kilt is well established, less so that MacDuff like. Bob Martain dated it to c1790 based on the rudimentary constrcution but that does not mean it could not be later. Based on the fact that the tartan, which was originallly a Wilsons' fancy pattern, cannot be dated before c1800, and that quality of the dyeing, I'd be more inclined to date that kilt c1820-40.

[figheadair]

Box-knife pleats on a 5 yard kilt. -- Now that is very interesting. But that´s early 19th century, isn´t it? Do you think it´s still comfortable and easy to care for if the kilt has wide box-knife pleats? Is it that style as shown in the photo, Figheadair?

My personal experience is that a 4 yard wide box-pleat kilt made with modern cloth requires more care than that made with more cloth and with narrower pleats. Many of the older kilts (c1800-40) were made from hard tartan which held its edge better. The MacDuff kilt is the exception and it shows in the lack of crispness of the pleats.

[Rod Roy]

My personal experience is that a 4 yard wide box-pleat kilt made with modern cloth requires more care than that made with more cloth and with narrower pleats. Many of the older kilts (c1800-40) were made from hard tartan which held its edge better. The MacDuff kilt is the exception and it shows in the lack of crispness of the pleats.

Thanks for sharing, that´s good to know.

What´s your opinion on the box pleats in the photo I posted last time? The pleats are slightly more in width. -- Are those pleats the same style you described as box-knife pleats? And are they early 19th century?

Yes, I will get my tartan woven as a so-called hard tartan. Concerning the stability of the edges of the pleats, will that be an advantage if I choose wide box-knife pleats for my kilt?

[figheadair]

Thanks for sharing, that´s good to know.

What´s your opinion on the box pleats in the photo I posted last time? The pleats are slightly more in width. -- Are those pleats the same style you described as box-knife pleats? And are they early 19th century?

Yes, they are box-knife pleats. The style dates to c1830-40 so better describes as first half or mid-19th rather than early-19th century.

Yes, I will get my tartan woven as a so-called hard tartan. Concerning the stability of the edges of the pleats, will that be an advantage if I choose wide box-knife pleats for my kilt?

Oh no you won't, you'll have something that approximates to what Wilsons of Bannockburn referred to as Coarse Cloth. No-one weaves hard tartan of the style commonly found in the 18th and early 19th centuries.

[Rod Roy]

Yes, they are box-knife pleats. The style dates to c1830-40 so better describes as first half or mid-19th rather than early-19th century.



Oh no you won't, you'll have something that approximates to what Wilsons of Bannockburn referred to as Coarse Cloth. No-one weaves hard tartan of the style commonly found in the 18th and early 19th centuries.

That´s very helpful information. Tapadh leat, a figheadair!

When I said it will be a so-called hard tartan, I guess I used the wrong word. The tartan will be made in what my weaver calls a scoured finish. And I hope that cloth will be suitable for my kilt and hold the box pleats well. What´s your advice please?

[figheadair]

That´s very helpful information. Tapadh leat, a figheadair!

When I said it will be a so-called hard tartan, I guess I used the wrong word. The tartan will be made in what my weaver calls a scoured finish. And I hope that cloth will be suitable for my kilt and hold the box pleats well. What´s your advice please?

The cloth will have a more traditional handle (feel), more like hand-woven cloth. It will be fine for kilting but I cannot really comment on whether it will hold the pleats better, worse, or the same as the fully finished version of the same cloth. You will find that the act of pressing will lessen the coarse handle to some degree. Try it and see.