Is it Pakistani or Scottish??

[Steve Ashton]

The problem is first of all, the fabric. Kilt wool is very expensive. It is wool, yes, but it also has a selvedge edge so does not require a hem.
And Tartans are very specific. In the Middle East it is common to duplicate a Tartan from a photo or on-line image.

Then there is the labor.
Kilts made in the iconic style are hand stitched. This takes a while to learn to do and do properly. It is a skill.
And a kilt is perhaps the most tailored garment in the world today.

They have full floating interfacing and stabilizers hidden behind the liner. In fact, the only purpose that a kilt has a liner is to hide the internal construction.

These factors are what lead to the cost of a kilt, not where it is made. Even at the average annual income in Sailkot, Pakistan the time to construct the garment would make it more expensive. They are used to machine sewing between 20 and 30 kilts per day. A hand stitched kilt can take between 30 and 40 man-hours.

But, and this is a big one. There is no Scottish heritage or kilt wearing tradition in Pakistan. They simply do not know what a kilt is or how it should be made. They are going on photos and movies. Many of the Pakistani made bagpipes are tuned to the Eastern 12 note scale not the 8 note scale used in the West.

So, could we see a reasonably priced, high quality kilt, come out of Pakistan? Yes, perhaps, if they learn how to do it and are willing to do so to make a profit. Will we see that in the near future? I doubt it.

[Katia]

My point was that there could be a market for kit out of Pakistan (etc) which would be of much higher quality than what we usually see from that part of the world, and still at far better prices than that which is made in Scotland, Canada, America, etc.
In other words, I think there are lots of people in the ‘Pakistan price bracket’ who would still be willing to pay more for a better quality product, but not 10 times more like they would for the Scots made version. I simply meant to point out that I thought it interesting that for the most part, this market had not been taken advantage of.

But, remember that a few years ago there was a big push in Scotland for anything not expressly made in Scotland to not be called a "Scottish kilt." How do you think Scotland would feel about it if people could buy a product of similar or better quality, but for much less-- which they would do?

[McCracken140]

I do not suppose that the quality of such a theoretical ‘well made Pakistani kilt’ would come that close to, or supercede, the quality of the traditional kilt. Nothing ever could. I was thinking of something in the middle—in between the haphazardly pleated tartan bath towel and the traditional tank. Some, even many, of the eBay folks, the rugby lads, and the tourists would probably be willing and able to put up more cash for a better piece of kit—just not $600 to $900 for a tank. (Although I know the 4/5 yarders are taking that place now)

I agree that if such a foreign middle ground were to exist, it would probably take away from much of our beloved usual Highland dress suppliers’ income, which would be a shame.


I’ve done some thinking on this the last few hours, and I think the end moral is that the second hand Highland dress economy should be promoted more: no Scots (or whoever else makes good stuff) producers are losing their livelihood, and everyone gets quality kit for cheap.

[McCracken140]

Also I do apologize for coming off so abrasive, I swear I’m not like that in real life lol.

[Steve Ashton]

I don't think you came off abrasive at all. If anything my response is the one that was testy sounding.

That is because I have been in the kilt business for a while now and I have heard many similar comments many times.

We already have the Casual Style kilts. These are those that appear at first glance to be iconic kilts but lack some or most of the internal construction elements.

We have the Low Yardage kilts that save by having wider pleats which require less fabric.

We have the MUGS which are constructed like blue jeans.

And we have the Sport/Pub Style kilts.

All are perfect for their intended use and customer base.

If the Middle Eastern companies had access to quality kilt fabrics - and if they had the expertise and desire to produce a quality product - their lower labor rate could, and I stress that word could allow a lower overall price.

I just don't see that happening. They don't know what a quality kilt is by the standards we place on them.
All you have to do is search youtube videos on Sailkpt pipe band.

Like this one -



It is a totally different cultural outlook about what a kilt is and how it is worn.

And as far as the used kilt market - Well, I simply do not accept consignments anymore. A person must be that exact size and want that exact Tartan. I had used kilts hang in my shop for three to five years and not sell.

[OC Richard]

My point was that there could be a market for kit out of Pakistan (etc) which would be of much higher quality than what we usually see from that part of the world, and still at far better prices than that which is made in Scotland, Canada, America, etc. For the most part, this market had not been taken advantage of.

It has been taken advantage of.

There is one Pakistani pipe-maker in particular, whose name escapes me at the moment, who makes Highland pipes in a quality that falls in that middle ground between the UK/North American makers and the cheap Pakistani pipes.

A friend here was playing a set of them for a couple years. The drones sounded good, they were made of a mix of African Blackwood and Ebony, and they were mounted in Sterling Silver.

The problem was that these pipes were being imported and sold by a Canadian guy who claimed to be the maker. A visit to him proved that the pipes were arriving to his house already made, from Pakistan.

Likewise decent-quality kilt jackets and sporrans are made in Pakistan and sold by Scottish firms under their own label. It takes careful examination- the tweed of the jackets has a certain feel, there are certain styling quirks, and the sporrans have obvious, or subtle, quality issues or other quirks. Personally I buy Scottish-made things out of both a high standard for quality and a bit of patriotism.

[Me cousin Jack]

I watched that whole pipe band video just to see a cobra come out of a basket, what a ***!

Pretty sure gyp is a slur, thus ***, please, to remove for clarity.

[Baeau]

......It is a totally different cultural outlook about what a kilt is and how it is worn...

I didn't know what to expect from the video. I wasn't prepared for all around pleats. I hope Jock doesn't watch it.

[Father Bill]

I have followed this thread and I can only say that the underlying anti-Pakistan prejudice apparent in the posts is quite disturbing. Perhaps this is something acceptable in the USA but it is certainly not here in the UK.

Hi Steve.

I don't see a pre-judice here by many, just a judgement that much of what has come there doesn't meet the same standards for quality or for honest presentation.

It comes perhaps under the heading of "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." So many of the pictures are inaccurate and the understanding of the product they are imitating is not good. That is unacceptable to me at least.

Having said that, as has been pointed out, it fills a niche for those who want something inexpensive, quick, and are not worried about either quality or longevity... so long as they know what they're actually getting.

[ShaunMaxwell]

I have followed this thread and I can only say that the underlying anti-Pakistan prejudice apparent in the posts is quite disturbing. Perhaps this is something acceptable in the USA but it is certainly not here in the UK.

If you're paying attention, you'll notice that the person using the term that offended you isn't from the USA, so you can direct your ire at the Canadians in this instance. That said, I'm sure we Americans will offend you soon enough.

SM