French cravat

**Mike n NC** · 14th December 04, 07:36 AM

Hmmm, I don't know if I have a longer torso than the rest of you but I have never found a tie that couldn't be tied in such a way as to not extend over the belt. I'm 6'1.5" tall and can knot a 60 inch tie so that it just touches the top of my belt buckle. It's rare to find one longer than 60 inches. Try lengthening the bitter end (the thin end) of the tie until it is the same length as the wide, most good ties have loops to accomidate this, then adjust accordingly.

As a boy I was taught, by my grandfather who was a gentleman indeed, that a gentleman never tucks his tie into his belt or waistband. It gives an air of not caring about one's apperance, of not taking the time to dress correctly, sloppy. It also gives the apperance of second hand goods or hand me downs that don't fit.

Like brown shoes being a must with any blue suit lighter than navy blue, I filed all this as trivial information, never to be used. I can't think of the number of times I have thanked him in the past years of formal engagements and military pomp.

Oh, and cajun, if it is of any interest to you...Black socks are like white and are rarely worn with anything short of black tie, white with white tie although he prefered spats with white tie. All other "semi-formal" dress he considered casual and colored socks were worn to match a part, usually the shirt, of the outfit. All part of the balance that Ham speaks of.

Mike, who blessed his grandfather while on embassy duty.

**macwilkin** · 14th December 04, 07:55 AM

Going "off topic" here, I suppose:

Oh, and cajun, if it is of any interest to you...Black socks are like white and are rarely worn with anything short of black tie, white with white tie although he prefered spats with white tie. All other "semi-formal" dress he considered casual and colored socks were worn to match a part, usually the shirt, of the outfit. All part of the balance that Ham speaks of.

Are we talking about "saxon" dress, or Highland dress here? If the latter, white kilt hose (but not off-white or cream) are frowned upon by the purists when it comes to formal attire, be it black tie or white tie. Tartan (sometimes called Argyll) hose or diced hose (red & white, red & black, etc.) are the preferred hose for formal occasions, or a dark one colour hose.

From the Tartan Authority's web site:

"Is it OK to wear white socks with the kilt?
Despite the fact that very many people do wear white hose (we call kilt stockings ‘hose’) we would say No! . . .No! . . and No! . . again. White hose first came about for pipe bands and with the increase in popularity of the kilt, it was a lot easier for kilt-hire companies to only stock white. Just like Henry Ford in the early days of the automobile - you can have any colour you like as long as it’s black. In this case however . . . it’s white.
White hose really are for pipe bands only and if you want to be regarded as ‘Highland Hip’ then you should wear coloured hose - something that tones in with the kilt. Off-white hose is quite acceptable - it has a slightly yellowish tinge - but do try and avoid the sparkling white variety - especially if they have little knitted bobbles around the top!"

I've seen fellows wear white spats with formal Highland wear, but on a civilian, it just looks odd. Spats or leggings really belong to the pipe band or military uniform, in my opinion.

Apologies for being "unclear" in my previous posts; I meant to say that the tie should reach the top of the buckle.

Cheers,

T.

**Mike n NC** · 14th December 04, 08:07 AM

Chuckles briefly, and I wasn't as clear as I could have been either.

He wore both and he, and I for that matter, look at the off-white socks as being white. I got'em but rarely wear them. As to the spats, remember, I was a boy in the 50's when they were a common part of male attire even worn with a suit in some cases.

As always, appreaciate your input and references since learning only stops when life does.

Mike