Claymore???

[MacRob46]

Webster says the mor makes it "great sword", which might well indicate the two handed, but also goes on to say that both usages are correct.
It does indicate the basket hilt would be the double edged version. Single would be the backsword. Webster also notes the earliest usage as
1527. The large two handed with quatrefoil tips, IIRC, is a copy of an extant gallowglass sword, or extant drawing of the sword, and the gallowglass
troops go back into the late 1200s. So, which is the chicken, which the egg?

Nope, nope. The basket hilt was a claymore, whether single edged or double edged - i.e. a broadsword - and they were made in both edge configuations. Galloglass, like so many other European and British fighters, adopted the two hander, which was usually produced on the continent. Blades were also sent to Scotland for hilting. But the Galloglass two hander does not go back to 1200 as they did not really gain popularity until the early 16th c. Some confusion has arisen from the production of some very large swords prior to the 16th c. but these were likely "bearing swords" for ceremonial use as they are much too large and heavy to be used in combat.

[Balaamsass51]

Thank you all so much for your input. A basket hilt is a claymore, the large two-handed weapon is not. My original information was correct. A "solidly entrenched misnomer".

[tripleblessed]

Like much that has gone before, not a lot of clarity in the murk. I911 Encyclopedia Brittanica is cited as saying two hander is, basket not so much.
It does note the term was at that time much used for both, though incorrectly applied to basket hilt. Don't know, don't own that edition. Couple
of sources note that American English says the term is accurate: great sword is the big one, Scots English favors basket hilt. I don't have a dog
in this hunt, was merely citing dictionaries as they are typically the arbiters of language questions. It may just be two peoples divided by a
common language.

Some think basket hilt may have become called big as it was larger and thicker (therefore more manly) than the swords used by English troops.
As with much history, much myth and differing opinions. In language, usage determines reality over time, so hold your own course.

I will note in passing I did not say the term went back to 1200; rather, gallowglass troops go back to latter half of that century. When they began
using two handers I don't know, but I think before basket hilts. Earliest I recall of illustrations is fairly early 16th century. Do not recall if claymore
was used as descriptor. I have doubts. What I have read indicates basket hilts began appearing later that century, I'm pretty sure McRob will
have a better idea than I about the timeline of arrival and usage in Scotland.

I know I will understand your basic intent whichever usage you choose.

[Allan Thomson]

Mooar means big or great. Why are there lots of Americans saying that it didn't refer to the two handed sword? If anything the basket hilt took its name from the earlier two handed swords to become what people now call the Claymore.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of gaelic can figure it out.

Oh and Basket hilts were originally Cavalry Swords which became in vogue in the highlands. Which probably lead to the cutting down of two handers to form single handed basket hilts.

[neloon]

This is a linguistic difficulty that will probably not go away. "claidheamh" is generally taken to be cognate with English "cleaver" and, obviously, a basket-hilted sword is a thruster rather than a cleaver. But both words go back to the Proto-Indo-European word *kladiwos , meaning any kind of sword, the English form having come via Proto-Germanic, German and Dutch. Gaelic/Irish kept the rather vague original meaning of sword whereas English/Scots changed the meaning from a two-handed affair to a basket-hilted sword around 1620
"The true claymore came into use probably late in the fifteenth century and continued until the early part of the seventeenth century, when it was replaced by the single-edged broadsword with a basket hilt, to which the name “claymore” was transferred."
( W. R. Kermack, The Scottish Highlands: A Short History (Edinburgh and London, 1957).

I'm not sure that that helps you very much!

Alan

[Benning Boy]

The miltary claymore mine, which cuts a wide swath, is supposedly named after the two-handed Scotish sword which also cuts a wide swath. Uncle Sam's military minions don't get things like this wrong😁.

[Me cousin Jack]

The miltary claymore mine, which cuts a wide swath, is supposedly named after the two-handed Scotish sword which also cuts a wide swath. Uncle Sam's military minions don't get things like this wrong😁.

they even write “this side towards enemy” just so there’s no forgetting

[MacRob46]

This is a linguistic difficulty that will probably not go away. "claidheamh" is generally taken to be cognate with English "cleaver" and, obviously, a basket-hilted sword is a thruster rather than a cleaver. But both words go back to the Proto-Indo-European word *kladiwos , meaning any kind of sword, the English form having come via Proto-Germanic, German and Dutch. Gaelic/Irish kept the rather vague original meaning of sword whereas English/Scots changed the meaning from a two-handed affair to a basket-hilted sword around 1620
"The true claymore came into use probably late in the fifteenth century and continued until the early part of the seventeenth century, when it was replaced by the single-edged broadsword with a basket hilt, to which the name “claymore” was transferred."
( W. R. Kermack, The Scottish Highlands: A Short History (Edinburgh and London, 1957).

I'm not sure that that helps you very much!

Alan

Alan, I have to disagree with you regarding the basket hilt as a thrusting weapon. While any sword with blade which comes to a point can be used as such, a claymore like the one which is my "icon" for lack of a better term, is definitely a cutting blade, which is true of all these swords hilted in Scotland. Backsword or broadsword, cutting was what it was about. Of course when the opportunity presented itself thrusting was also put into play. The one pictured has a blade that is two inches wide at the hilt and gradually tapers down. It is sharp. The catalog of fighting techniques for use with these swords is light on thrusting.



"Is fhurasda buill 'an treun-fhir aithneachadh." transl..The mighty man's stroke is easily known. This is a Gaelic proverb from Highland Broadsword by Christopher Scott Thompson



DS s Hilt IV.jpg

[Orvis]

Alan, I have to disagree with you regarding the basket hilt as a thrusting weapon. While any sword with blade which comes to a point can be used as such, a claymore like the one which is my "icon" for lack of a better term, is definitely a cutting blade, which is true of all these swords hilted in Scotland. Backsword or broadsword, cutting was what it was about. Of course when the opportunity presented itself thrusting was also put into play. The one pictured has a blade that is two inches wide at the hilt and gradually tapers down. It is sharp. The catalog of fighting techniques for use with these swords is light on thrusting.



"Is fhurasda buill 'an treun-fhir aithneachadh." transl..The mighty man's stroke is easily known. This is a Gaelic proverb from Highland Broadsword by Christopher Scott Thompson

MacRob - I must agree with you about the pre-1745 Highlanders preferring the edge to the point in their swordsmanship. Although the old Highlanders left no swordsmanship manuals, what is known or has been reconstructed (by Mr. Thompson and his colleagues) demonstrates that getting edge on flesh (not in a hacking stroke, which could cause the edge to become stuck in the adversary's bone) and slicing was prevalent.

BTW, the sword you have pictured very much reminds me of one that Donnie Shearer (doing business as the Mad Piper) used to advertise and market. I have two of his basket-hilt swords, and the scabbards are very much like that pictured. Is it, in fact, a Mad Piper broadsword?